Fanuc "Not 0" Control on VMC's?

[Ox]

I have an old lathe with a first generation "0" control on it, and it sucks to say the least.
Things got a bit better when I by chance stumbled upon the library.
"Whoa, a library! How'd I git here? What keystrokes did I just make?"

So I picked up a mill recently that has a 0D on it as well, but it is 10 yrs newer than that lathe, and I ass_u_med that from the opperator end, that it would be like other current model variants. I expected that it was lacking in axis capacity, expandability, and similar things that I as an opperator wouldn't even see/know.

I was wrong!
So then my wonderment went to "OK, would an 0i be what I am expecting?"

As it had come up in another thread recently, I take it that the answer to that is "no"?


So, my question is - what mills are available with the equiv of a 16/18 or i versions of the same?
I have five 16/18/and 18i's. I know them and I like them. (all lathes)
I now understand what everyone that hates Fanuc is talking about.

I am mostly interested in used machines here...
Did Hardinge offer any mills with an 18 or whatnot on it?

Doo I need to be looking at some other flavours?

I have started to replace my Siemens mills and I want Fanuc's on whatever comes int he door, but I'm not dealing with this Schidt for long.


What is a "21"?
Is that possibly what I am expecting?
Would I be happy with one of those?
Did / doo they put those on mills?
Only place that I am sure that they are on is 2x lathes, so ???


------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[dandrummerman21]

I am not entirely sure what you're after, but a few things.

From my knowledge of early/mid 90's controls, having had at one time all 0 controls, from 0a/0b/0c/0f, and still have a few:

In order of basic to powerful, you've got 0/21/18/16, 16 being most powerful/expandable. If you throw the 15mb, I think that is technically "more powerful" but might be wrong.

I believe the same follows for the i series, oi/21i/18i/16i/15i

I have a mill here that's a 21mb. Has more memory than a 0 (256k vs 128k). Very basic control.

I'm not sure you'll be "happy" but if you're used to a 16 or 18, or 16i or 18i, a 21 behaves mostly the same, way more than a 0.




For example, on a 0, you can't adjust a tool .001" by hitting input+, because that doesn't exist!


Fairly certain from my limited 0i experience that a 0i will also behave way more like a 18i control in terms of menus and such.




Edit: I don't hate these 0 controls but have never known anything but fanuc! However I am aware of limitations so I get why people hate it when they can't do whatever they used to do on ___ control.

 

[Vancbiker]

The 21 was the entry level control in the family of 16 and 18 models. As the D version of the 0 control phased out, the 21 took its place for a few years until the introduction of the 0i as the entry level control.

One of the major issues with the 0 series is that most machine builders spec’d it with the mini keyboard. That has many limitations. An optional full keyboard makes using a 0 more friendly.

If one wants the best of the 0 controls on a used machine, stick with a C or D. Those introduced things like Wear and Geometry offsets and extended editing as well as better processing power.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

The 0 was the bottom line Fanuc CNC, and really, still is. It's a parts making control and is adequate for up to 4 axis of motion.
Up to the Fanuc 0-T/M "C" most were bare bones and options were "a la carte" if they were available at all.

Starting around 2010 or so, the Oi "D" began with a much nicer display and many of the options were bundled to make the control easier to use and more competitive with other controls that were on the market.
The 0i "F" and 0i "Plus" are continuations of that trend and most of the ones I've seen have quite a few features on them.

If you need to step up, the next up the ladder is the 32i, followed by the 31i, 31iB-5, and, for those with really deep pockets, the 30i.

I used to work for Doosan (now DN) and the 0i was the predominant control on the machines. Some had 32i's or 31is, and the more complex machines had 31iB-5.
It used to list the 31i as an option for some machine models in place of the 0i. Not sure of they still do.

However, this gives some insight as to why the 0i is so prevalent. At the time, and, I repeat, things may have changed since my time there, the 31i was a $11k option over the 0i on the same machine! That's a lot for a control.

Way back in the 80s and 90s, many mid and high line builders offered the 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 18 in addition to the 0, 3, and 6. For a while the controls went in ascending order, so 0 at the bottom, then 6, 10, 11, 12. Sometime around '89 or 90 they went in descending order of sophistication, with 0 still at the bottom, then 21, 18, 16, 15.

When CAD/CAM systems were rare and prohibitive, the fancier controls may have had their place. In today's world, it's not as crucial save for very advanced machines, and very high speed applications.

The lowly 0i control has come a long way from the amber monochrome, limited keyboard, 2k memory controls of the 90s.

 

[Ox]

My "0M D" machine is a 1999 or 2000, so you will want to re-look at your post, but thanks.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ox]

Does the 21i also have the memmory card slot on the face as well?


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Vancbiker]

My "D" machine is a 1999 or 2000, so you will want to re-look at your post, but thanks.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Very late D model. D model came in 1994. 21 was 1996.

 

[Vancbiker]

Does the 21i also have the memmory card slot on the face as well?


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Looking at the 21i hardware manual shows a card slot on all display types.

 

[wmpy]

I am mostly interested in used machines here...
Did Hardinge offer any mills with an 18 or whatnot on it?

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[William Lynn]

Some Fanuc controllers had a pay for play option. There were options not available until you pay for the key code.

 

[Ox]

Yeah, I did find one listed that had an 18i as well.
I wonder if that was std or an option?
That machine sorta looks like a beast!
A bit light on X, but everything else is over the top.


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

My "0M D" machine is a 1999 or 2000, so you will want to re-look at your post, but thanks.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Apologies, I meant 0i..

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

I got this from another site.

 

[wmpy]

I got this from another site.
View attachment 389256

That's interesting. Good find. I don't think I've ever seen a 15i control.

 

[wmpy]

If one wants the best of the 0 controls on a used machine, stick with a C or D. Those introduced things like Wear and Geometry offsets and extended editing as well as better processing power.

I have machines with wear and geometry offsets that I'm pretty sure are 0T-B controls. I'm not sure of any differences in editing between the 0T-C and 0T-B controls. To the operator, they look the same.

 

[Vancbiker]

I have machines with wear and geometry offsets that I'm pretty sure are 0T-B controls. I'm not sure of any differences in editing between the 0T-C and 0T-B controls. To the operator, they look the same.

Wear and geometry are for sure not available on a 0MB with standard firmware. I’d have to check to be certain about a 0TB.

The 0C has the option to copy, move, merge programs or blocks. It’s an option and IIRC, only works when the control has a full keyboard not the more common mini keyboard.

 

[Garwood]

As for VMC's from the 90's that would most likely have Fanuc 16/18 or machines from the early 2000's with the 16i/18i controls I would look at Mori-Seiki, Makino, Kitamura and Hitachi-Seiki. A Mori SV-50 with a 16i is a very common machine for the 98-2004ish era. A hell of a good machine too.

Sometimes you'll find an odd one though. I have stripped down base model Daewoo Puma 2 axis lathe that came with a 16T control. It's the only Fanuc machine I've ever seen that was ordered without pitch comp.

 

[wmpy]

As for VMC's from the 90's that would most likely have Fanuc 16/18 or machines from the early 2000's with the 16i/18i controls I would look at Mori-Seiki, Makino, Kitamura and Hitachi-Seiki. A Mori SV-50 with a 16i is a very common machine for the 98-2004ish era. A hell of a good machine too.

Sometimes you'll find an odd one though. I have stripped down base model Daewoo Puma 2 axis lathe that came with a 16T control. It's the only Fanuc machine I've ever seen that was ordered without pitch comp.

Ox just has to keep in mind that those builders have all been known to put their own skins on controls, so they might not have the look/feel he's used to. A Mori SV-50 like you mentioned probably has a pretty normal-looking Fanuc control, though.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

That's interesting. Good find. I don't think I've ever seen a 15i control.

Thanks.
I've never seen one in the flesh either.
From what I was told, the big difference between the 0-B and 0-C was that the "C" had the faster 32bit CPU and related hardware.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Where does the 0M fall in all this? I don't see it on the chart.

I ask because the 1989 Bridgeport VMC I had was a 0M if I remember right. It was by far the best FANUC control I used (out of maybe.... 6?)

I was impressed at what it could do, especially for being what I had assumed was a *base* machine in its day.

Ox, while totally irrelevant to your discussion, I thought I would follow up!