First Lathe: 1942 Monarch 14C

[machinistrrt]

When I worked as a quality engineer, we had a material that could be used to make a castings of thread and other internal features. You would fill half of the thread, let it harden for a few minutes, then pop the casting out and measure the thread form/pitch/whatever on the optical compactor. Flexbar makes the stuff, and I imagine that there are other sources. Dentists use something similar for making dental impressions.

There's a metal called cerrobase or cerrosafe used for casting lo-temp impressions.

 

[KT_NorCal]

As Ive said here before ....the most effective bed scrapers Ive used were the brass/bronze knife edge type,held to the bed by small coil springs ...........any kind of soft material gets loaded up with swarf ,and forms an effective bed scoring unit.

Hi John,
My thoughts are in line with your statements... have you seen this youtube video before? This guy comes up with a product that seems perfect in my mind... now just have to find something similar over here in the States.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Not a ton of work directly on the lathe to update, but am in the process of trying to fix the handles that are broken. When I bought some bits from member "guythatbrews" he threw in a few extra handles he had from his Monarch and it turns out one is a perfect swap for a broken one I had.... the other broken one was the lead screw engagement handle, which is a bit critical, so I'm going through the process to fix it properly. Just cleared it up and got it ready to braise. I'm going to have to try and pick up the original taper pin hole which is not ideal so any suggestions on doing that without making a dogs breakfast of the handle would be great!

Also got some of the interior parts of the castings I've removed coated in Glyptal and filled the major casting defects on the surface with epoxy. Next step is to paint with the new color and see how it all looks.

I have several button oilers that I need to replace in these castings. Any suggestions on good quality brass ones that have a proper outside taper for better connection to the pressure oiler?

Thanks

 

[KT_NorCal]

Learned how to baize... Turns out one of the handles was so dirty I didn't realize it was already braized. Had to re-do it though as my particular form of OCD wouldn't let me leave it as is.

Also finishing the elevating/leveling feet for the lathe... finally.

 

[m-lud]

Your brazed repairs look great. Cast iron brazes so nice. That will be as strong as before.
Getting the whole area just below cherry red before applying any rod and working it until it flows out is my method.
Brazes that fail usually didn't tin to the cast iron well. Tinning may not be the right term. It's what gramp's taught me.
In the fifth photo did you braze both sides?

When you get your void filled with brass keep your flame on the cast at the edge to avoid boiling the fill. You can play with the heat on the cast around the fill until you see it flow out on the edges.
Dont be afraid to over fill a little so the the brass overlap's the edge. Just my 2 cents x 10.

Nice save of some original parts. Not many would have made the effort. Finding another part isnt always an option.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Question: Help with machining some dovetail ways..

Long story somewhat short.. Been keeping an eye out for a follow and steady rest for this lathe with no luck, but I was able to find the upper half to what looks like a Monarch 60/61 "13" inch lathe follow that is in good condition. It turns out that it is a really nice casting, but is sort of missing the critical bottom half with the 3 point attachment to the saddle. I've found a picture of what that bottom half looks like on the interwebs and am working up a fixture to try and reverse engineer the exact mounting points to fabricate one up. For once, I've sort of had some critical thoughts occur to me before I've started welding or machining anything.
1. I need to leave room for a future cross slide DRO scale either to the left or the right of the slide and..
2. Having some adjustment ability as to where the actual follow-rest support points hit your work might be very handy to have.

Number 1 is, I think, just down to leaving some proper clearance to either side of the cross slide itself in the "bridge" between the various mounting points, but number two gets a bit complicated due to the bolt hole mounting arrangement on the casting. It is not super helpful TBH. In my mind the two best options are just to put a series of holes in the "Bridge" in what I think would be the best points or to just make a "dovetail" set up that allowed me to slide it and lock it down at whatever point is best. I think number two would be more elegant and would also be an interesting and educational project.

To that end, can anyone suggest some reading material on design/machining dovetails? I've searched here and also the usual books but didn't find anything that talked about how to actually design some and then machine them (and the things to watch out for, etc). These would be pretty simple... Given the direction of forces involved I would assume a solid front dovetail and some kind of either straight or tapered gib at the back to lock it down.

Also has anyone fabricated a follow rest for one of these C types? I would be interested in seeing any pictures if you have!

I forgot to take a picture of the casting I do have, but will do that this weekend and post it.
Thank you!

 

[texasgeartrain]

Scroll through this thread. Check out beckley23's adjustable fllower rest:

Follow Rest Design Options

Sometime in the future I'll be designing the FR for the SE 60. In the past when I've built FR's I've always taken the easy way and used 90* jaw placement, but I've also noticed that several manufacturers use an angle greater than 90*, and Monarch uses both. What are the pros and cons? Harry

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[KT_NorCal]

Scroll through this thread. Check out beckley23's adjustable fllower rest:

Follow Rest Design Options

Sometime in the future I'll be designing the FR for the SE 60. In the past when I've built FR's I've always taken the easy way and used 90* jaw placement, but I've also noticed that several manufacturers use an angle greater than 90*, and Monarch uses both. What are the pros and cons? Harry

www.practicalmachinist.com

Whoa.... someone stole my idea, like, 14 years before I had it! ha

This is exactly what I had in my little head:



I'll send a PM and see if they have any more details on it. Looks like they put the gib in the front is the only difference from what I was thinking. Will still need to figure out if there is anything not obvious that I need to learn about milling v-ways.

Thank you!

 

[Rob F.]

Whoa.... someone stole my idea, like, 14 years before I had it! ha
I'll send a PM and see if they have any more details on it.

I am pretty sure Harry is no longer with us (: His monarch threads were great.

 

[Cal Haines]

Yes, sadly, Harry has passed away.

He wrote a nice article that includes dimensioned drawings for three different sizes of follower rest, using the same design. Here's a link that includes photos and information about the article:

Taking a poll of those interested in a 10EE Follow Rest casting.

I don't know if Gary at Martin Model would be interested in another casting. This is a poll of how many Monarch 10ee owners would be interested in a Follow Rest casting. I would so that's 1. I don't have a follow rest to send to Martin model as a pattern so someone with one would have to loan...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[KT_NorCal]

Yes, sadly, Harry has passed away.

He wrote a nice article that includes dimensioned drawings for three different sizes of follower rest, using the same design. Here's a link that includes photos and information about the article:

Taking a poll of those interested in a 10EE Follow Rest casting.

I don't know if Gary at Martin Model would be interested in another casting. This is a poll of how many Monarch 10ee owners would be interested in a Follow Rest casting. I would so that's 1. I don't have a follow rest to send to Martin model as a pattern so someone with one would have to loan...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Ok that is a bummer. Cal, do you still happen to have any pictures of the drawings he did for those follow rests? I read that thread you linked, so thanks for that! There were some non-watermarked pics of the follow rests in them that are nice to have. Seems like an optimal design. That three-point follow rest that came on the square dial is pretty bomber too from the looks of it. With some minor tweaks Harry's design is pretty much what I had in mind.

Attached a pic of the upper half of the follow rest casting I ended up with. It looks exactly like one you posted in that thread actually.

 

[Cal Haines]

You can get a copy of the issue containing the article with all the photos and drawings from the publisher for $8.50:

HSM NOV/DEC 2011

secure.villagepress.com

 

[KT_NorCal]

Ok, Thanks! Do you happen to remember the size of the CY he built that rest for? Looks almost like an 18, but hard to tell.

 

[Rob F.]

Ok, Thanks! Do you happen to remember the size of the CY he built that rest for? Looks almost like an 18, but hard to tell.

Pretty sure it was a 16" I have same sized machine so was watching his posts closely. .His screen name was beckley23
Look here for a starting point:

Larger Monarch Lathes - information, rebuilds, etc.

This thread contains links to threads that contain information about larger Monarch Lathes, including rebuilds. (Here a larger Monarch lathe is anything bigger than a 10EE.) The late Harry Bloom's rebuild of a Series 60/61, 16x78" lathe: Another New Toy Monarch Ser.60 Gearbox Removal...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[KT_NorCal]

Pretty sure it was a 16" I have same sized machine so was watching his posts closely. .His screen name was beckley23
Look here for a starting point:

Larger Monarch Lathes - information, rebuilds, etc.

This thread contains links to threads that contain information about larger Monarch Lathes, including rebuilds. (Here a larger Monarch lathe is anything bigger than a 10EE.) The late Harry Bloom's rebuild of a Series 60/61, 16x78" lathe: Another New Toy Monarch Ser.60 Gearbox Removal...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Hi Rob. Thanks, that is helpful. I'm *relatively* sure that they 14 and 16 had the same sized beds so I'm hoping the measurements for his 16 follow rest will translate to my 14. Will save a bit of fiddling around if they do.

I started putting together a jig for fitment as I don't have a welder and will need to do much of the work by translating the measurements... The mounting holes are 5/8-11 which appears to be just slightly larger than anything local hardware stores carry (in socket cap) around here, so not off to a flying start. haha