First milling machine, I guess it needs some maintenance

[BT Fabrication]

Well doing an inspection on my machine, it looks to have lost some material somewhere.
About 5 thou and 8 thou on the Z axis gibs on the left and right near the top on the back.
Guess i need to get into the tercite B game and pull these and fix the droop it is causing in the head.
It started to catch the one way, unfortunately but not terrible i think. We shall see.
Bought this machine used and didn’t get super deep inspecting it.

Question is, how tight typically are these to the box ways? Guessing they need to be in the ten thousandths of an inch range?

 

[Richard King]

How about a long distance picture of the machine and telling us the brand and model. The long ways look screwed up and they need to be scraped. Machined if they are soft or ground if they are hard. Then the Turcite B would be epoxied and scraped to the short side. You say that's the head-stock? It needs to be cleaned. I suspect the lube system is not working, the way wipers are shot and someone never cleaned the chips and crud off the ways. What is the history of the machine, You bought it like this?

 

[memphisjed]

Got any full body shots of your mill?

 

[BT Fabrication]

How about a long distance picture of the machine and telling us the brand and model. The long ways look screwed up and they need to be scraped. Machined if they are soft or ground if they are hard. Then the Turcite B would be epoxied and scraped to the short side. You say that's the head-stock? It needs to be cleaned. I suspect the lube system is not working, the way wipers are shot and someone never cleaned the chips and crud off the ways. What is the history of the machine, You bought it like this?

It’s on a First MCV800, has about 8500 cutting hrs on it.
Noticed the head nod after i had bought it(0.008 out of tram), the rest is functional with some small wear in the ball screws to be expected. Table ways are mint. Said they previously had the table off, guessing they fixed it as all new way wipers are on the x and y axis.
Got it cheap $5K with about 18 tool holders and expected to put some $ into it.
The front of the z axis way is 100% getting lube, just this is the strap that holds it on the back side of the way.
The way wipers were previously neglected up top, as most of them are long gone with only the metal strip left on a couple and the hardened rubber on the rest.
Seems to be built similarly to a fadal.
Has a counterweight that is bolted onto the top of the gib.

 

[BT Fabrication]

Part in question is #37 in the parts manual.

 

[Richard King]

It is hard to see what your seeing when it's such a dirty mess, It's late, so I maybe not seeing this right From the print It looks like the inside way where the gib rides and it's positive side where the heard rides on the column is shot. So the 2nd photo showing the outside way is scored up and that needs to be repaired . Meaning the Turcite on the back and side of the head is gone and it's been riding on the iron.. I would clean it up and remove the head. If the column ways are shot you have 2 choices . Remove the column and get it ground or 2. use a hand angle grinder and repair it in place. It will be a 1/2 assed way to do it, but will work on a cheap machine. Here is a headstock turcite (rulon) repair I did a few years ago. https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/kitamura-mycenter-head-way-turcite-repair.313068/
Clean it up. It makes repairing it easier when it's clean before you pull it apart.

 

[BT Fabrication]

It is hard to see what your seeing when it's such a dirty mess, It's late, so I maybe not seeing this right From the print It looks like the inside way where the gib rides and it's positive side where the heard rides on the column is shot. So the 2nd photo showing the outside way is scored up and that needs to be repaired . Meaning the Turcite on the back and side of the head is gone and it's been riding on the iron.. I would clean it up and remove the head. If the column ways are shot you have 2 choices . Remove the column and get it ground or 2. use a hand angle grinder and repair it in place. It will be a 1/2 assed way to do it, but will work on a cheap machine. Here is a headstock turcite (rulon) repair I did a few years ago. https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/kitamura-mycenter-head-way-turcite-repair.313068/
Clean it up. It makes repairing it easier when it's clean before you pull it apart.

the casting is mehanite i believe, all the rest of the ways are pristine smooth finish to them, just sucks this back right got neglected so badly. Surprised as they were still using it somehow previous in a tool and die mold shop and was still using it until there new machine showed up.

ya the residue of coolant is all over this thing, almost like dried up grease thickness of #2. Been getting into it slowly here and there, the top half of the Z axis is torn up on the back side, but the bottom half still looked fine without taking it apart and having the Z axis all the way up.
id have to take a picture of the front and the rest, but they are shiny smooth on the riding surfaces.

Is there a difference in tercite B vs rulon 142? or are they about the same thing?

this machine most likely wont see 40 hrs run time a week ever. and more or less just want the column close to vertical as I can instead of 8 thou off over a 12" circle when checking tram.

my approach is to of course clean the junk off it, then pull the back side gib and hopefully be able to machine the bolt down strap on the back to flat and true, glue on some rulon/turcite and scrape it in, then figure how bad the back side of the column is. Hopefully checking with a precision straight edge if i can get one to fit in there.
just enough room from the column back side to fit a dial indicator back there.

 

[Richard King]

Shamban originally made Turcite and that's what I used, but when their patents ran out others made it. Saint Gobain made Rulon. Then Shamban went bankrupt and it was a pain to find Turcite I started to buy Rulon and still buy it from Tstar.com You should put in aa couple of Starrett 1/2" x say .010" hick shim stock under the worn hold downs and sweep or tram again. That would show you the front flats are OK and it is only the rear hold-down that bad.

The first trip to Taiwan I was touring one of the factories and saw the M (Mehanite) and asked if they were using that patented iron mix? and they said the machines they copied had an M so they made patterns with the M, so I suspect your machine is grey iron. On your 2nd picture it sure looks like the side is pitted and scored too a little? Or is that just crud? I see the back is bad. If it is just the back. You may want to make up some sort of file holder and use a rough cut file and use it to file the back side. Use a vacuum to suck up the chips or dust instead of scraping back there. I would mill the hold-down flat and then glue on some Rulon 142. Member BMikelson has a lot of Turcite he can sell you as he bought a bunch of scraping tools and supplies from a rebuilder who retired. Ben sold some to a guy who needed some in another thread.

 

[BT Fabrication]

Shamban originally made Turcite and that's what I used, but when their patents ran out others made it. Saint Gobain made Rulon. Then Shamban went bankrupt and it was a pain to find Turcite I started to buy Rulon and still buy it from Tstar.com You should put in aa couple of Starrett 1/2" x say .010" hick shim stock under the worn hold downs and sweep or tram again. That would show you the front flats are OK and it is only the rear hold-down that bad.

Picking up on the head in front of the spindle, I had an indicator at the top and it moved 0.007-0.008" with light to heavy pressure, repeated it at the bottom and the indicator didnt pull away from the vertical column any when measured from the back side strap to see where the movement came from.

The first trip to Taiwan I was touring one of the factories and saw the M (Mehanite) and asked if they were using that patented iron mix? and they said the machines they copied had an M so they made patterns with the M, so I suspect your machine is grey iron.

from the slight grooving it does look like grey iron.

On your 2nd picture it sure looks like the side is pitted and scored too a little? Or is that just crud?

the side appears to have chips embedded into it, guessing from the lack of way wipers on the top.

I see the back is bad. If it is just the back. You may want to make up some sort of file holder and use a rough cut file and use it to file the back side. Use a vacuum to suck up the chips or dust instead of scraping back there. I would mill the hold-down flat and then glue on some Rulon 142. Member BMikelson has a lot of Turcite he can sell you as he bought a bunch of scraping tools and supplies from a rebuilder who retired. Ben sold some to a guy who needed some in another thread.

I have seen that thread and was wondering about messaging him, although being in Canada sucks for shipping. Was already emailing local companies that can supply this hopefully. I will email him also, as having a scraping tool isnt a bad thing if he had some of those also.

I had thought of possibly making something to go around the vertical column box way on the front, and have it guide to maybe have a die grinder horizontally to slide up and down the front good side and rough in the rear to be parallel to the front. Will have to figure it all out once i get in there. Then just make everything to fit.

For thickness, what would you recommend to do if I need to take off 10 thou let's say to clean it up, get 32 then machine or grind it down after install or before? or will I need to cut it down to 32 thou and put a full thickness piece in there?

I know I will have to fix the left side also before it gets bad, as that side has about 0.005" wear/freeplay on the top hold down also but the way looks pristine over there currently. will do that while im in there.

 

[BT Fabrication]

For anyone else wondering, there is a Turcite B supplier in Toronto Canada, called D&D Engineered Products that can supply it here got a quote back for 12"x24" for $160.93 Cad$ on 0.032" and $180 for the turcite waylock glue.

D&D Engineered Products Inc. | Gaskets Mississauga Toronto

D&D Engineered Products offers a wide range of sealing products including Spiral Wound Gaskets, Metal Gaskets, Gasket Material in Mississauga & Toronto area

ddenginc.com

 

[Richard King]

Your planning on removing the head I hope? Clean out the lubrication ports, oil groves, etc.? I I can I usually put on .047" and the glue has .003" glass beads in it. If you use .032" it's difficult to not cut through the turcite when cutting in the oil grooves. If I were you I would ask Ben what he charges. Might be 1/2 price or less?

 

[BT Fabrication]

Here was a picture of the front side. And the way with the head all the way up. Just starting to see wear grooves there.

 

[Richard King]

What's the plan?

 

[BT Fabrication]

What's the plan?

was hoping not to have to completely pull the head, will have to figure it out when I can get to it, family emergency happened here yesterday with the wife...

 

[Richard King]

Family first.....God Bless..