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FOR SALE: German semi-automatic cold circular saw (Eisele)

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stressrelieve

Plastic
Joined
Jul 14, 2022
***EXCELLENT SAW FOR A GROWING FABRICATION SHOP***

PRICE: Please contact

LOCATION: West Greater Toronto Area, ~60 minutes from Queenston-Lewiston bridge

Manufacturer: Eisele
Model: VMS-2-S-PV (semi-automatic)
Serial number: 421-01973
Made: Germany
Year of manufacture: 1993
Electrical: 3 phase, 575 volts
Spindle speeds: 38 and 76 (at 60 hertz)
# of owners: One
Seller: Remi Industries, Mississauga (Remi is still in business)
Under power: Yes
Instruction & Parts Manual: Yes (original, with purchase)
Automatic bar feed: No
Infinitely variable downfeed: Yes
Maximum vise opening: 6.5”
Vise jaw height: 2.375” (pneumatic clamping)
Mitre cuts: Yes, up to 45 degrees (owner never made mitre cuts, only 90° cuts)
Ideal materials: Mild steel (<75K PSI tensile strength) and lower strength non-ferrous

-comes with 13.3-14.5mm tooth pitch chip wheel; 13’2” roller conveyor; original instruction manual; four uncoated HSS blades (5.5mm tooth pitch, 10.9mm TP, 11.1mm TP, 13.2mm TP); and one coated HSS blade (313mm OD x 14mm TP) in nearly new condition.

-machine was inspected and given basic service this spring by the original seller, and seller was most impressed with the condition of the gearbox given the age of the machine: low hours and avoidance of stainless and higher strength metals kept this machine in excellent condition (blade speed is too high for difficult cuts).

-machine has been hardly used since year 1999, when the digital revolution destroyed the printing press sector the shop machined for. (The saw was used from 1993 till 1999 for off-and-on production cutting of solid round mild steel up to 2.25” diameter and mild steel round tubing up to 3” outside diameter. After 1999, horizontal bandsaw cutting dominated in the shop, almost exclusively.)

-toughest cut ever made: 3” diameter 44W hot finished round, which tested at 81,000 PSI tensile strength. Cut several such pieces without any problem on June 16, 2023, at 3.5 feed rate (= 80 seconds to complete a cut), using a coated HSS blade featuring 14mm tooth pitch and 313mm outside diameter; a 13.3-14.5mm chip wheel; 160 PSI air pressure (per gage at the compressor); and premium “Walter” metalcutting fluid (“CoolCut S30”).

No Sunday sales or calls, please.

Please note I am not the fastest to reply on weekends.

Telephone correspondence is preferred.
 

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stressr,
You really need to add a price to the ad.

I have two Eisele saws and highly recommend them as well built and easy to use. I have not seen the chip wheel on a machine for sale before, an interesting addition. Curious as to how it works and why it is needed.

I have the 20” model 5pv and have never needed a chip wheel. I run 16” blades on that machine as the 20’s are quite expensive and I rarely cut large stock.
160 psi is too high for the air pressure, manual recommends 90-100 psi. The vice has the extended jaw, for clamping both sides of the cut, which is a nice feature and needs to be removed for mitre cuts.

Your machine does look to be in very good condition for its age so good luck with the sale.
 
stressr,
You really need to add a price to the ad.

I have two Eisele saws and highly recommend them as well built and easy to use. I have not seen the chip wheel on a machine for sale before, an interesting addition. Curious as to how it works and why it is needed.

I have the 20” model 5pv and have never needed a chip wheel. I run 16” blades on that machine as the 20’s are quite expensive and I rarely cut large stock.
160 psi is too high for the air pressure, manual recommends 90-100 psi. The vice has the extended jaw, for clamping both sides of the cut, which is a nice feature and needs to be removed for mitre cuts.

Your machine does look to be in very good condition for its age so good luck with the sale.
Thanks for the reply.

The chip wheel is free spinning and features pins which match the blade tooth pitch. The pins drive out from the gullets chips formed during the saw cut. My understanding is, that chip wheels are not necessary for fine tooth pitches, for softer materials, for low alloy materials, for thin sections, or for hollow shapes. As I’m sure you know, chip wheels can do wonders to prevent wandering and premature wear of horizontal bandsaw blades, especially on large diameter 300 series stainless solids, and I suppose the theory behind the chip wheel on a cold circular saw is much the same.

As for your PSI remarks. I simply made thorough observations when the experimental cuts were made and in so doing I noticed that, at the compressor the gage, was reading 160. I was not suggesting 160 PSI is or was necessary.
 
Post the price please and if you want interested buyers to call; you will have to add your phone number. Also helpful for callers would be a contact name.

I understand what the chip wheel does but not exactly sure how it indexes perfectly if it is free spinning? Does it rub on the blade for rotation? Is it spring loaded? I have never seen one on an Eisele saw or any other makers saw. My bandsaws have a wire wheel which is quite different. Straight band cutting is more about blade tension and guide setup anyway.

I mainly use 10mm pitch blades. The pitch is easy to determine on a cold saw blade, just measure tooth to tooth. Eisele has it figured out with the pitch chart, other sellers of blades use total tooth count which is a very cumbersome method given that a different diameter blade will have a different number of teeth even though they are the same pitch. 10mm pitch (or any pitch)is easy to determine on an 11” blade or 16” blade, so simple as there is no need to do any math. In this case metric is a much easier system for pitch sizing.

And you are welcome for the bump to the top.
 
Rob, I am not sure how to understand your abrupt reply. Are you in california and interested in my machine in the Toronto area? Or do i have to apologize for being new to selling my machinery and not knowing exactly how to go about it? When i visit used machinery sites prices are seldom disclosed. Maybe things are different on PM? I dont know, because I am not buying equipment and didn’t research this question.

I just looked at used cold circular saws on a popular machinery clasifieds website and of the 62 ads, only 11 feature a price (= 18%). Because i am new to selling equipment I can only imagine there are good reasons for it. What these reasons might be I do not know. Maybe you can educate me and explain to me why machine sellers do not typically publish their prices, but why I should not follow their example. And then perhaps i will change my mind and publish a price.
 
Not sure if you are so dont take it personal but you are sure acting like a sleaze ball used machine salesman, someone who want to get the interested buyer on the phone and use the "gift of gab" to convince them this is the greatest deal ever to grace the planet earth.
Most likely machine dealers dont post prices on the open internet for a few reasons. They want to know who they are dealing with and can price machines accordingly. A large power plant that just broke a similar machine and needs a replacement ASAP will pay much more than the average joe doing side work. A published price will negate that. The prices may go up due to factors out of their control, like inflation, covid virus, scrap price increase... etc and a cheap published price would be a bad thing for them.
Are you a used machine dealer or do you want to sell the machine? I just see a lot of gab and still no indication of price so not sure what to think. You have been a member here for 3 days short of a year now and you should know better.
 
Stress, Rob F is spot on with his summation of used machine tool dealers and their history here.
Read all the rules for posting For Sale ads here. They are at the top of the list of new threads in this category.

You have done most things well, good pictures and description but the folks here want the price listed and contact info. If you get multiple offers then your price is a tad low but a fast sale is sometimes required. If your price is too high then you either won’t get any responses or you will be told clearly that you are dreaming.

You can choose to use the private message service through the PM site. This is a great place to buy and sell and I have done both here with near perfect results. Only one minor annoyance and it was resolved.

If this is your machine and you are selling then all is fine, or if selling for your employer that is fine too.
If you are starting a used machine business then this is not the place for your ads. Members who sell here also have to participate in the rest of the forum. Buying and selling online is about trust and the PM rules create that trust.
 
Machine dealers don't post prices online for all the reasons mentioned above AND they use inquiry forms to harvest contact information for their marketing list. I don't bother contacting ads for machinery with no price listed anymore. You claim that only 18% of the ads on a "popular" (unnamed) used machinery site posted prices, however you rounded up, which is misleading. Based on your statistics, prices were listed in only 17.74% of the ads. This is a machinist site, those digits past the decimal point matter. Know your audience.

***EXCELLENT SAW FOR A GROWING FABRICATION SHOP!!!***

(I added some exclamation points to really drive home the sale!!!)

What's with the used car dealer lingo? So this isn't an excellent saw for a fabrication shop that's no longer growing? What about a one man machine shop that needs to process stock in house? This ad reeks of desperation.

I'll add a quick additional tip (free of charge) to guarantee you won't seal the deal: list the price of how much the saw would cost new if purchased today.
 
Machine dealers don't post prices online for all the reasons mentioned above AND they use inquiry forms to harvest contact information for their marketing list. I don't bother contacting ads for machinery with no price listed anymore. You claim that only 18% of the ads on a "popular" (unnamed) used machinery site posted prices, however you rounded up, which is misleading. Based on your statistics, prices were listed in only 17.74% of the ads. This is a machinist site, those digits past the decimal point matter. Know your audience.
Are you serious or in jest? If the former you are a kindred spirit. Welcome aboard to the sad club of OCD.


I thought most of us machinists - I am not a dealer, they are not to be envied, being subjected to so much cynicism and suspicion. I say, I thought most of us machinists worth our salt machined to tolerances of at least 4 decimal places. 11/62 = 17.7419%. My Cincinnati milling book of the 1950s gives 6 (six) decimal places occasionally. See attached photo of a couple pages in question. I find it rather comical when a modern machinist makes the claim that the old manual machinists couldn’t hit tight tolerances…


I recently ground the 12” x 39” - 12” x 39”, may I? - EM plate of a horizontal spindle surface grinding machine to about 0.00012”. See attached. Or should I say 0.00” if and when I post this machine?

And why do you suppose I chose the name “stressrelieve”? Sometimes when on the Wacky World Web I feel tempted to leap into a vacuum furnace for a good bath…
 

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$5,000.000000 CAD.

Six (6) decimal places…just for you, Rob! A clever reply you contrived, btw.


FOB our shop.


The CRA, the CDN equivalent of the IRS, wants its portion derived from business liquidation sales - both auctions and even unsystematic, piecemeal sales such as ours - so 13% HST atop the $5K, and we will be taxed personally on the base $5K.



If sold to a USA customer I don’t believe HST applies. Certainly when I was machining for USA clients HST did not apply, but I do not know if tax law is any different on used machine sales. If any serious USA inquires are made I will consult a bookkeeper.




I’m helping a very elderly man sell off his manual machine shop assets (free of charge, BION), and as he did not grow up with modern methods of communication, and is both in fact and admittedly incompetent in using them, he would prefer to correspond by phone. But I am extremely careful about what I put on the web so if you wish to have additional information, please start a conversation with me (is that called a “PM”?), and a telephone number and the name of the machine owner, can be given you in that context.


Thank you for your understanding.


Oh! The Starrett SR100 gage is not included but i attach a pic as alleged proof we are not jerking anyone around with the RA values in the OP pics. Not that I think there is necessarily anything special about the results but I was very curious what we would get and was thinking perhaps others would be as well. (I missed my calling…R&D in precision machining.)


stressrelieve
 

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Thanks for the reply.

The chip wheel is free spinning and features pins which match the blade tooth pitch. The pins drive out from the gullets chips formed during the saw cut. My understanding is, that chip wheels are not necessary for fine tooth pitches, for softer materials, for low alloy materials, for thin sections, or for hollow shapes. As I’m sure you know, chip wheels can do wonders to prevent wandering and premature wear of horizontal bandsaw blades, especially on large diameter 300 series stainless solids, and I suppose the theory behind the chip wheel on a cold circular saw is much the same.
Stress,
Glad you finally posted a price. It is not way too high but don’t expect a quick sale.

My question is about the chip wheel, which described above seems to be for alloys and tough to cut materials.
In your first post you state that this machine has only ever cut mild steel on sundays by an old lady in a leather apron. So why would it have been purchased new with a chip wheel if it never cut materials that needed a chip wheel? Perhaps the owner could shed some light by sending a hand written letter to the PM site?

Welcome again for the bump to the top. Although members here may be gun shy to buy after it took so long for you to post a price, short attention span kind of thing as they may not make it all the way down 12 posts…..
Also my name is Michael Moore and it is all over the WWW. Who cares? I advertise with a WEBSITE!
 
My question is about the chip wheel, which described above seems to be for alloys and tough to cut materials.
In your first post you state that this machine has only ever cut mild steel on sundays by an old lady in a leather apron. So why would it have been purchased new with a chip wheel if it never cut materials that needed a chip wheel? Perhaps the owner could shed some light by sending a hand written letter to the PM site?
Hi Michael,

I would have privately sent you this reply because it is not fair to others who post ads here, for us to continue this conversation publicly and thereby repeatedly bump my ad to the top. (If the moderator will kindly permit me, perhaps i will repost the ad, including the price.)


But if I were to reply to your latest privately, or not at all, it may be thought I am trying to hide something because you are being extremely persistent and public about the chip wheel, and I am beginning to think you are suspicious that I am lying about this machine having only cut mild steel and low strength non-ferrous materials. So, I better go public with my reply. Here goes…


First. Are you serious about my asking the 85 year old seller I represent, to compose a longhand letter for the PM website, explaining why he has a chip wheel? You can’t be serious, can you? But you are, apparently, because you are absolutely fixated on the thing. If you think i am going to ask the very elderly seller who, humanly speaking, is about to exchange this life for eternity, to do so, you are dreaming.


Second. I did not state the chip wheel is only for alloys or tough materials. I specifically mentioned that my understanding is, that a cold circular saw chip wheel should also be used with coarse blades and on thick sections, e.g., solids. The coarse blade and/or thick section trumps the material type, whether hard or soft. In other words, use a chip wheel if cutting 4” solid round mild steel with the required coarse blade. We have blades up to 14mm tooth pitch, and as low as 5mm or so. Our chip wheel is for ~13.3-14.5mm tooth pitch blades. I would consider a 13.9mm TP blade to be much coarser than a 5mm. And I also reckon it is good practice to drive heavy chips out of gullets when cutting thicker sections, especially when using 3mm wide cold saw blades (bandsaw blades are only ~1 mm thick, if that), and yes, even when cutting mild steel. The 315mm x 3mm blades are about $250 and I’d rather not have to scrap a blade owing to a lost tooth, and at the same time shock the machine gearbox when the tooth is lost. I would argue that that is reason enough to own a chip wheel, even if one never cuts anything more difficult than mild steel.


Third. I would ask you to show me exactly where I stated or even implied that the chip wheel was bought new with the machine, but we really do have to quit this conversation. I did state the seller is the original owner (meaning he bought the machine new), but I don’t know when the chip wheel was acquired. Do you want me to search for the receipt and post it? Would that at last satisfy you?


I apologize that I am done with this thread. This is getting ridiculous.


Enjoy your weekend, Michael. Please don’t dwell on the chip wheel too, too much, lest you run yourself literally crazy.

sr
 
^^^ When a simple ad for a used machine turns into a raging dumpster fire lol.

Perhaps this one should be a sticky on how not to list a machine for sale?
 
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