FOR SALE: Turn-Key 2007 Haas VF-2ss

[Matt@RFR]

Turn-Key 2007 Haas VF-2ss, SN1056980
$42,000, YOU LOAD, YOU TRANSPORT, I can recommend a good rigger on my end.
Located in Paradise, Ca 95969
matt (at) rfrcustomfab (dot) com


Picture gallery located here: Gallery | RFR Custom Fab


Machine is in excellent shape. I'm only selling it because we are adding another Brother pallet changer (faster, more accurate) and I don't have enough electrical power to keep the Haas. Otherwise I would absolutely keep the machine. It's the machine I started my business with and I hate to see it go. It's running jobs still and will be unhooked from power once the new Brother shows up, then it will stay dark until you power it up at your place.


I am the original owner of this machine. It has lived a good life with perfectly dry air, coolant maintained every single morning, regular baths, good way lube and a climate controlled shop at 68º year round. That said, I run it hard when called for. It's spent its life at max RPM and high feedrates, but still produces good parts with tight tolerances. If I haven't broken it yet, you won't break it. Here's a video of it running whatever job we were running at the time: https://youtu.be/i-lsDK_miGg And here's a video of it at 100% rapid, plus spindle up and down: https://youtu.be/UWCRJGYll50 Here's a video of a nice fit done on this machine, 1/2” dowel pin bore interpolated with a 1/4” endmill, both sides cleaned with alcohol before assembly: https://youtu.be/kjNjjMTyEVQ






The good:
Has the Coldfire II processor, which is still supported for repair according to Selway.



Backlash seems pretty good to me:

X: Picture 40X (updated after thrust bearing) Video: https://youtu.be/7ILZewdsHY4

Y: Picture 41Y (factory backlash setting) Video: https://youtu.be/X1Z1q520g5Y

Z: Picture 42Z (factory backlash setting) Video: https://youtu.be/e0F2dbYSCRY


The 4[SUP]th[/SUP] is basically new. It gets used maybe 2-4 times per year. Here's an older video of it running, plus showing broken tool detection: https://youtu.be/eiJ5RN3SYiQ It hangs on a boat trailer winch for storage so you don't have to ever lift it in/out, and is on a subplate that registers and bolts to the machine table. This setup gets the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] within .001” parallel to Y and Z.


Comes with both double vises and the subplate. Vises are mounted via Orange ball locks, and there are 5 positions they can be mounted in. The subplate also has a grid of 1/2”-13 holes. As setup, these vises WILL HIT the back wall of the machine!!!


Comes with Renishaw tool setter, Renishaw spindle probe, MariTool 3” calibration tool, Dorian tool tightening fixture and 90 (Ninety!) assorted toolholders. Techniks, MariTool, etc. You get a 2” and a 2.5” Korloy facemill for aluminum, a 3” 45º Mitsubishi ASX facemill, a 3/4” APKT endmill, a 1.25” Mitsubishi AJX feedmill, a Criterion 3” boring head, the Lang chip fan, basically everything in the pictures except for the smaller mounted tools (endmills, etc). Pictures 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 and 38.


Upgraded LED cabinet lights, super awesome professional mounted.


Bunch-o-Spares, see picture 37.


Add-On coolant filtration: I'm so glad I did this. Coolant is filtered to 10 micron BEFORE it goes to the sump. The sump never has to be cleaned. See video (and read video description for more details) https://youtu.be/oWJDR9gPbNw Also picture 3 shows the gauges associated with this system. PF1 is for the 25 micron filter, PF2 is for the 10 micron filter, the last one is flood coolant pressure (5 micron filter) All spare filters are included.


Dual backup batteries have been added, and an up-to-date backup will be sent with the machine on a thumb drive.


Add-On air blast. Picture 3 (the lower gauge / regulator and manual activation button), picture 19 (solenoid / valve setup). It's plumbed to a length of locline near the spindle. It's turned on with M51 and turned off with M61.


Add-On mist collector. Picture 3 (contactor below gauge panel), picture 10, pictures 26, 27, 28 (super awesome gap fillers). The mist collector needs a dedicated 20A 208/220 3PH feed. Video of coolant returning to machine from mist collector: https://youtu.be/HukoZazKlAo






The Bad:
Spindle was reground in 2021 and the grinder fixturing came loose during grinding. It gouged the spindle, but once grinding was finished, runout is pretty good (.0002” @ 3”) and there's still tons of contact area. No change in how the machine runs, it's really just cosmetic. https://youtu.be/FtioTD1Aem8 Picture 39.


The machine alarms with 648 (DC bus shorted) and 649 (DC bus undervoltage) alarms (see picture 35) every morning, but it's because we are running so close to the incoming tap lower limit (see picture 36). Haas (Selway) master tech said this is not an issue, and the alarms clear after a couple minutes of the machine being powered on. This probably won't happen to you, depending on your incoming power.


The flood coolant pump breaker trips randomly. Sometimes twice in one week. Sometimes it will go 6 months without tripping. The breaker, motor start and run capacitors have been replaced with no change, the motor and pump spin freely by hand, and Haas can't explain it.


The 4[SUP]th[/SUP] will sometimes alarm out during homing on startup. All you have to do is jog the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] a few degrees and re-home and it will be fine. This doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.


The control will sometimes misfire during startup, showing a jumble of pixels on the screen. Just restart and it will be fine. It's done this since it was new. Maybe happens once every few months.


The manual is missing. An ex employee stole it. Can you believe that?






Specs:
X Axis Travel: 30"
Y Axis Travel: 16"
Z Axis Travel: 20"
Rapid Rate X Axis: 1,400 IPM
Rapid Rate Y Axis: 1,400 IPM
Rapid Rate Z Axis: 1,400 IPM
Table Size: 36" x 18"
Max Table Load: 1,500 LBS
Spindle Motor: 30 HP
Spindle Speed: 12,000 RPM
Spindle Taper: CAT40
Tool Changer: 24 Side mount ATC
Max Cutting 833 ipm
Max Weight 1500 lb
Max Thrust X 1995 lbf
Max Thrust Y 1995 lbf
Max Thrust Z 3085 lbf
Chip-to-Chip 3.6 s
Coolant Cap 55 gal
Weight: 7,800 LBS


Options:
Renishaw spindle probe & tool setter
Coolant Thru Spindle, 300psi
Programmable Coolant
4th Axis
Chip Auger
Coordinate Rotation & Scaling
High Speed Machining
IPS
User Definable Macros
Remote Jog Handle








History:

2013 the spindle motor went south
2014 the TSC rotary coupler failed, bent at max RPM and took out another spindle motor

2015 replaced tool changer arm seal
2016 replaced drawbar
2017 spindle regrind, no crash just worn
2019 replaced X axis thrust bearing, ball bar to tune
2021 replaced all way lube restrictors, cleaned way lube system completely, new windows, new way cover wipers
2021 replaced TRP solenoid manifold complete
2021 spindle regrind, no crash just worn

 

[Matt@RFR]

Price reduced to $38,000.

Am I too high? I thought it was at least somewhat reasonable with 90 tool holders, mist collector, vises, 4th axis, additional coolant filtration, etc.

 

[Garwood]

Nobodies even going to talk to you without good pictures. That's the very 1st step.

I think used Haas prices are nuts in general so I'm not a good gauge on price.

 

[Matt@RFR]

Nobodies even going to talk to you without good pictures. That's the very 1st step.

I think used Haas prices are nuts in general so I'm not a good gauge on price.

A link to the picture gallery is on line 5 of the ad.

 

[BT Fabrication]

Price reduced to $38,000.

Am I too high? I thought it was at least somewhat reasonable with 90 tool holders, mist collector, vises, 4th axis, additional coolant filtration, etc.

i've been starting to see an major increase on used machines for sale recently.... might be why. or might be high, depends how fast you want to move it.

 

[Ianagos]

Price reduced to $38,000.

Am I too high? I thought it was at least somewhat reasonable with 90 tool holders, mist collector, vises, 4th axis, additional coolant filtration, etc.

I mean there was a guy that posted recently he paid 62k I think out the door for a brand new vf2ss with tooling package and a few basic options. So yes I think you are a bit high

For example Im selling a 5axis 2006 fadal (optioned out) for a bit less and I’m getting no bites but I’m not in a hurry to move it.

 

[Matt@RFR]

i've been starting to see an major increase on used machines for sale recently.... might be why. or might be high, depends how fast you want to move it.

Thanks for the insight! I only buy new machines so I am very disconnected from the used market.

I mean there was a guy that posted recently he paid 62k I think out the door for a brand new vf2ss with tooling package and a few basic options. So yes I think you are a bit high

Ok, but to replicate mine back in 2016 Selway quoted 98k and that was without tooling or vises or anything. Two different machines. But like I said above, I really have no idea about the used market so I'm flying blind here, other than looking online at other similar machine ads... all of which are just bare machines, usually no 4th and still in the low to mid $30k's.

 

[Ianagos]

Thanks for the insight! I only buy new machines so I am very disconnected from the used market.

Ok, but to replicate mine back in 2016 Selway quoted 98k and that was without tooling or vises or anything. Two different machines. But like I said above, I really have no idea about the used market so I'm flying blind here, other than looking online at other similar machine ads... all of which are just bare machines, usually no 4th and still in the low to mid $30k's.

I see haas machines regularly overpriced used compared to their new prices.

 

[gustafson]

Not a Haas fan

IMHO not so overpriced as to discourage offers.

Seems like a well set up, well kept well tooled machine

Really not sure how this site does for selling.

 

[Ianagos]

Oh yea the other thing that makes it less attractive in my opinion is the fact that buyer has to rig out.

When I had a seller prep a machine for me and move it out of their building riggers still charged me $1500 just to put it on a truck. Maybe 30 mins of work. (Easy to load machine)

When you factor that plus shipping us no finance plus a very old machine I don’t know how sellers get what they do for haas machines it’s crazy.

 

[Matt@RFR]

Oh yea the other thing that makes it less attractive in my opinion is the fact that buyer has to rig out.

Yes, good point. I suppose buying a machine from a dealer doesn't have this cost. I don't have a choice though, I only have a small forklift, and even though I am capable, I wouldn't rent a larger lift to load someone else's machine after they buy it.

 

[Ianagos]

Yes, good point. I suppose buying a machine from a dealer doesn't have this cost. I don't have a choice though, I only have a small forklift, and even though I am capable, I wouldn't rent a larger lift to load someone else's machine after they buy it.

Yea over the years I spent so much money renting lifts I just decided to buy my own. Paid for itself after 10 times I woulda got a rental and I haven’t had to put much money into it yet. I’ve had not great luck with riggers either besides being expensive and not readily available I’ve had one damage my machine a bit.
It’s also super convenient to just decide to move your machines around whenever you want.

Next thing I want is a landall trailer then I’ll really be ready to move some equipment.

 

[gustafson]

Yes, good point. I suppose buying a machine from a dealer doesn't have this cost. I don't have a choice though, I only have a small forklift, and even though I am capable, I wouldn't rent a larger lift to load someone else's machine after they buy it.

I dunno, I paid less than 2500 for a rigger to take delivery of, hold for x days, drive 30 miles, unpack set up and level my new machine, so I am thinking how much the simple dragging it out of the building is part of the price. If it is a clear shot to the door, it could be 15 minutes.

I don't remember any dealers delivering a machine for free.

 

[Ianagos]

I dunno, I paid less than 2500 for a rigger to take delivery of, hold for x days, drive 30 miles, unpack set up and level my new machine, so I am thinking how much the simple dragging it out of the building is part of the price. If it is a clear shot to the door, it could be 15 minutes.

I don't remember any dealers delivering a machine for free.

Depends where you are Cheapest quote I’ve ever gotten from a rigger was $1200 that was also to just pick up a machine and set it on a flatbed. They didn’t even have to drive far maybe 30min

That’s when I started renting lifts for $800 a rental

 

[Matt@RFR]

Depends where you are Cheapest quote I’ve ever gotten from a rigger was $1200 that was also to just pick up a machine and set it on a flatbed. They didn’t even have to drive far maybe 30min

That’s when I started renting lifts for $800 a rental

I'd rather pay $400 more for an insured rigger to move someone else's machine. My machine? No big deal. But not one I just sold.

Shit does, in fact, happen.

 

[Ianagos]

I'd rather pay $400 more for an insured rigger to move someone else's machine. My machine? No big deal. But not one I just sold.

Shit does, in fact, happen.

Yep in my experience the riggers some times cause that and since it was minor it wasn’t worth the effort to try to get money out of them and it was across the country so yea.

For a complicated or high dollar machine id probably call a rigger but an old haas or fadal? Eh I’ll take my chances. You must also realize I’m a poor boy I’m not making millions running a huge shop so my point of view may be different than many others

 

[Matt@RFR]

SOLD for $35,000 to a dealer.

 

[Rapid_Tech]

SOLD for $35,000 to a dealer.

Damn, just saw this thread and would've been interested. Did you sell the 4th axis and toolholders as well?

 

[DanASM]

Just some information I came across when talking to used machinery dealers.

One was a Haas specialist with used machinery. He could rebuild them and knew everything about them. He said they seem to stop selling easily at the 10 year old mark.

I know some companies will buy machines new and run them for 7 years and sell them no matter what condition they are in. Then they go new and rinse and repeat.

The 5-7 year old machines get sold used and run for another 5 or so years before they significantly drop off in value.

I have been looking at what I can get for 30-40k used, and what I can get for 30-40k down payment on new. The new machines have warranties and tax credits that make them much more attractive when purchasing.

I did get a quote on rigging for a Hardinge GT. It was about 1800-2500 I think. The customer had me rent a 10k lb fork lift and it ran me about $800-$1000. No insurance on the machine when I did it myself. I probably wouldnt move something over 12k lbs myself. Maybe 15k lbs.

I am glad you got your machine sold, either way.

 

[Matt@RFR]

Damn, just saw this thread and would've been interested. Did you sell the 4th axis and toolholders as well?

Yessir, the whole nine yards went away. Nothing Haas or CAT40 is left in the shop.