Forging Tapers on square hsteel bars

[Machine Shop BDS]

Hi All, I have a project that We need to make a large qty of spurs for the top of a fence to match the existing. Castings are not available . I'm looking for a machine to taper the ends of 3/4" HR square bar taper from 3/4" down to 1/4" over 3" obviously we can't do this over an anvil, so I'm looking at a machine with possibly 2 rollers on eccentric that we can pre heat the bar and roll it to the taper.

any suggestions would be greatly areciated.


Regards Chris

 

[Pattnmaker]

There are rolls to taper the ends of a bar hebo is the one small scale one I am aware of. But typically tapering like this is roughed out on flat or roughing dies and finished with taper dies on a power hammer.
What's a large quantity? I would suggest you find a local blacksmith with a hammer and sub it out. With a decent size hammer those could be knocked out pretty quickly.

 

[Ries]

This was done by hand on an anvil for 2000 years, and, for the last couple hundred, with power hammers. But I have no idea if there are any power hammers on Barbados. Its true a Hebo would do this, but a Hebo is not cheap. These days I would not be surprised at all if you were looking at $30,000 to $50,000 for one.

 

[Scottl]

I only see three ways.

Use a power hammer.

Find a local smith willing to do them.

Or use a facemill to take them down. Although each bar would require 4 cuts it should be possible to gang a few together so you are not milling them one at a time.

 

[cyanidekid]

This was done by hand on an anvil for 2000 years, and, for the last couple hundred, with power hammers. But I have no idea if there are any power hammers on Barbados. Its true a Hebo would do this, but a Hebo is not cheap. These days I would not be surprised at all if you were looking at $30,000 to $50,000 for one.

far longer than that, actually, especially if you include copper and precious metals.

 

[IceCzar]

I've done this with hammer and power hammer but the simple way would be to just hand grind a die and a press.

We'd do that all the time but use the power hammer to form it in..

It might take a progression of dies
But you can just use mild steel plate.
Whereas rollers and bearing really don't like hot work unless designed for it.

 

[mhajicek]

How many is "a large quantity"? 100, or 100,000?

 

[Ries]

To do a hundred of these, by eye on a power hammer, with blacksmith tolerances (as opposed to machinist tolerances) would take an experienced blacksmith a few hours at most. There are semi-industrial artist blacksmiths in Florida who could do this. The problem occurs when they are at the end of 8' pieces of 3/4" square, where the logistics and cost of shipping adds up.
I have also simply built a jig for a little 4x6 horizontal bandsaw, and sawn these tips, but its slow. Works, though. We did it for a big project involving much shorter tapers in stainless that were on two sides only. Too fussy to forge.
But for a 3" long taper, hot forging would be my automatic go-to.

 

[Machine Shop BDS]

Thanks For your feedback guys, sorry for not replying sooner, must have missed the notification. we ended up subbing out to a blacksmith, consistency was not great but we are spending time with a grinder to make them decent. Regards Chris

 

[Pattnmaker]

To do a hundred of these, by eye on a power hammer, with blacksmith tolerances (as opposed to machinist tolerances) would take an experienced blacksmith a few hours at most. There are semi-industrial artist blacksmiths in Florida who could do this. The problem occurs when they are at the end of 8' pieces of 3/4" square, where the logistics and cost of shipping adds up.
I have also simply built a jig for a little 4x6 horizontal bandsaw, and sawn these tips, but its slow. Works, though. We did it for a big project involving much shorter tapers in stainless that were on two sides only. Too fussy to forge.
But for a 3" long taper, hot forging would be my automatic go-to.

Hi Ries just noticed your post mentioning saw cutting short tapers. What we often do when we need to Forge short tapers is to make 2 parts at once and use a scissor type tool to cut them in half. Or just cut a piece of scrap off the end. On a repeating or big job you can make a custom cut off tool with a custom taper. You could even cut part way through and finish with a saw if you needed a flat on the tips. The off cut backs up the taper.

I learned this trick from a steel mill blacksmith who started in the Stelco blacksmith shop at 15 during the war. Retired at 70.