i was reassured that this will be taken care of... its hard for me to believe i'm the only/first person to bring up those issues though, figured something simple like this would have been taken care of long time ago, but we'll see.
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From Fusion 360 to... NX? hyperMILL? What else?
- Thread starter mutiny
- Start date
- Replies 59
- Views 16,856
i was reassured that this will be taken care of... its hard for me to believe i'm the only/first person to bring up those issues though, figured something simple like this would have been taken care of long time ago, but we'll see.
This has been very useful, thank you all for your thoughts & feedback.
Trial license for NX 3-Axis Milling Foundation + 5-Axis Machining should start later this week. Going to give that a fair shot and if everything is clicking, I'll probably move forward with it because the price and feature set is right. In the meantime, going to look more into hyperMILL and SolidCAM.
Trial license for NX 3-Axis Milling Foundation + 5-Axis Machining should start later this week. Going to give that a fair shot and if everything is clicking, I'll probably move forward with it because the price and feature set is right. In the meantime, going to look more into hyperMILL and SolidCAM.
if they are able to improve the roughing stuff, Hypermill is a FANTASTIC package. good luck with your decision!
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
Fusion has always handled some things extremely well, and roughing is one of them. Probably why they originally named the company HSM Works?
NX only started offering Adaptive Roughing in NX12 (and they switched to continuous release, but we're basically on NX 13.5 at this point, so it wasn't long ago). It does very well and Siemens clearly did their homework in the core algos, but I do miss taper helical entry and Fusion's more sophisticated level optimization. NX Adaptive Roughing uses their height setting tech from their older Cavity Mill operations which gives one complete control of each roughing level, but it is nowhere near as Click -n- Go as HSM Works/Fusion and doesn't do Flat Area Detection nearly as well. Having said that, NX now has MultiAxis Adaptive which I am hearing is very very sweet, but no 5 axis machine to play with it on.
Get to use any CAM system long enough and you'll find that they all are missing "obvious" features. In Fusion, those features tend to be for more advanced machining options (tool path projection, IPW handling, multi-axis). NX is the exact opposite where the multi-axis and mill/turn stuff is extremely advanced, but things like the archaic tool library or lack of first-class chamfering tools are frustrating.
The difference with NX is that you'll find things frustrating and a bit complex, but there is always a way to skin the cat. With Fusion, the limits you bump into are hard stops with very limited hacks to get around.
really puts into perspective how some of the old school packages have been lagging behind on so many 'obvious' and seemingly simple things that make a programmer's life SOOO much easier. people can talk all kinds of shit on autodesk and fusion, but thats one of the things that i'd say they're way further ahead than even the high end competition.
jeffj
Aluminum
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2011
- Location
- Southfield, MI
I'm honestly surprised you hit the wall in Fusion CAM before Fusion CAD.
In your case, it may be tough to beat the power of NX CAD and CAM - all in one integrated environment.
NX supports barrel tools. Would have to verify they do in 3x and not just 5x.
In your case, it may be tough to beat the power of NX CAD and CAM - all in one integrated environment.
NX supports barrel tools. Would have to verify they do in 3x and not just 5x.
Confirmed just earlier today that barrel tools work in 3ax and not just 5ax. I currently spend 21 minutes on an operation with a .5in ball end mill that a 60mm effective radius barrel mill can complete in under 9 minutes with a smaller scallop. Already placed an order with Hoffmann Group (half the price of Emuge/Fraisa) to try and do some real world tests. If that works out, the cycle time savings of being able to use barrel mills in a 3ax setting essentially pays for the software.
barrels on 3x seems a bit odd, you'd have to use a specific radius tool for different angle surfaces, no?
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
HSM Works/Fusion had the advantage of being written from the ground-up 20 to 30 years after the old-school guys, with an explicit mission to simplify CAM programming, with the lessons learned from the legacy solutions, and without the resulting legacy taxes to contend with. The basic Incumbent v. Upstart advantages here are well understood in business and management - it is why Clayton Christensen made a boatload of money by writing The Innovator's Dilemma.
If you are Siemens and MasterCAM, your "customers" are often C-suite folks who write checks and won't be using the software all day. Your best ROI for developers is to be focusing on new, flashy, high-end features. That is why NX has incredible tools that can program an exotic mill/turn/additive machine, but a simple "obvious" chamfering tool enhancement gets neglected.
This is all starting to change as Fusion is gaining momentum. I know SolidWorks and MasterCAM now see Fusion as a straight-up threat and are starting to respond (like the emails begging me to get back on SW maintenance, all the backdated charges and penalties dropped). NX has responded with Continuous Release, an (incredible) new Sketch engine, and the CAM team is focusing on everyday programming efficiency enhancements.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - Love or Hate Fusion, the impact it will have on the overall CAD/CAM world is going to be a huge benefit to everyone.
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
Think 4ax with a little bit of tilt. If you can get the synthetic radius of the circle segment to be normal to the surface you are trying to machine, you get the benefits. Like most all 4 axis stuff, it is a bit of a niche application (since really, everyone playing in the circle segment cutter game is on a real 5 axis mill), but with some tweaking by a CAM developer, those niche applications can be addressed.
Gkoenig's suggestion about 4th is exactly what we plan to do. We have a particularly "lucky" case too where we're milling tapers around the entirety of the part that can be addressed by standard available barrels. Definitely a bit of an odd use, but will save us a ton of cycle time.
Edit: to head off any potential "use a taper tool instead of a barrel" comment, the tapers blend into multiple other planes/fillets and change between the sides and front. After much experimentation, milling the entire OD with a single tool gets the best finish by far without having to blend toolpaths.
right, i can see using them on 4th axis, but straight 3x seems more effort than its worth.
couldnt agree with you more!
sometimes i almost wish i never used fusion, it gave me the taste of the forbidden fruit so to say, and now using 'industry leading' cam systems is giving me hemorrhoids... lol
i've gotten comments like: well we can simplify our stuff a lot faster than fusion can get their software as capable as ours, but with how fast they're moving - i'm not so sure how true that is.
bryan_machine
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2006
- Location
- Near Seattle
But it depends on which "industry leading" product - any time I read other people's descriptions of these apps I'm always thinking "well, buying solidcam turns out to have been the right move" - but that might be partly confirmation bias.
i believe hypermill, NX, mastercam, espirit would fall under that category.
Hi Mutiny:
boosted has mentioned TopSolid in an earlier post so I figured I'd chime in as well; we've used it for quite a while (~2005 I think...?), and switched over to the V7 program about 2 years ago and like it for the most part. My only complaints have to do with the representation and support in the US after our old dealer separated from the company; not real thrilled with the new arrangement, but YMMV as they say. If you're inclined to have a look I don't think it would be time poorly spent.
It has been interesting to read other comments/complaints about their s/w, and it makes me realize that they all probably have things that you'd love and hate about them. TS has got a really nice edge breaking toolpath that is just about fully automatic, and can make quick work of deburring/edge breaking/chamfering on models that have chamfers modeled on them, as well as sharp edges. Huge time-saver-like it a lot! The stock management is really something; makes it easy to get efficient toolpath without really having to try too hard...you've gotta really try to get it to cut much air. The PDM is really a useful tool once you get up to speed on it, too.
We've got the Volumill add-in as well on one of our licenses, and it seems pretty trouble-free in my estimation. They have released their own algorithm ("Boost milling")in the last release (V7.14) but we don't have it, so I can't offer any useful input, unfortunately. Interesting to read other's complaints about VM as it seems pretty bullet-proof in TS, but I haven't used it in other programs.
The modeler is quite nice; this really is a legitimate CAD/CAM program, and we have used it quite a bit for some design work as well as the usual "just make this" job shop stuff we do.
I'm enjoying reading other's comments about NX, as if we were shopping for s/w that would be on our short list.
I'll send you a PM with contact info if you'd like to chat, and I'd like to hear what you think of NX after your trial run! I've pondered having a look but haven't gotten off my kiester yet.
boosted has mentioned TopSolid in an earlier post so I figured I'd chime in as well; we've used it for quite a while (~2005 I think...?), and switched over to the V7 program about 2 years ago and like it for the most part. My only complaints have to do with the representation and support in the US after our old dealer separated from the company; not real thrilled with the new arrangement, but YMMV as they say. If you're inclined to have a look I don't think it would be time poorly spent.
It has been interesting to read other comments/complaints about their s/w, and it makes me realize that they all probably have things that you'd love and hate about them. TS has got a really nice edge breaking toolpath that is just about fully automatic, and can make quick work of deburring/edge breaking/chamfering on models that have chamfers modeled on them, as well as sharp edges. Huge time-saver-like it a lot! The stock management is really something; makes it easy to get efficient toolpath without really having to try too hard...you've gotta really try to get it to cut much air. The PDM is really a useful tool once you get up to speed on it, too.
We've got the Volumill add-in as well on one of our licenses, and it seems pretty trouble-free in my estimation. They have released their own algorithm ("Boost milling")in the last release (V7.14) but we don't have it, so I can't offer any useful input, unfortunately. Interesting to read other's complaints about VM as it seems pretty bullet-proof in TS, but I haven't used it in other programs.
The modeler is quite nice; this really is a legitimate CAD/CAM program, and we have used it quite a bit for some design work as well as the usual "just make this" job shop stuff we do.
I'm enjoying reading other's comments about NX, as if we were shopping for s/w that would be on our short list.
I'll send you a PM with contact info if you'd like to chat, and I'd like to hear what you think of NX after your trial run! I've pondered having a look but haven't gotten off my kiester yet.
Responded to your PM! Thanks for your thoughts. TopSolid does also seem like a really powerful piece of software. It'll also be on the list to investigate further if I decide NX isn't the right direction.
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
I probably fall into that category a little bit on the CAM side of NX. It is very powerful, but calling it perfect would be absurd. If I could run the development roadmap for 18 months, it could be crazy easy to use because there is a huge amount of power and intelligence, but it is wrapped up in some core interface elements that make me want to pull my hair out.
Where I have guzzled the KoolAid hard is NX CAD, which is a simply mind-blowing tool across the board. The modularity of geometry elements, the absurd stability, the power behind all the tools, Synchronous Modeling, the new Sketch solver, Wave Linking, reuse library, assembly constraint system, customization... I could wax poetic about the CAD all day long, so much so that I'll tolerate the little bit of Stockholm Syndrome I have about the CAM side.
boosted
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2014
- Location
- Portland, OR
There is a stlyle that has a huge radius only on the tip. hyperMILL calls it a lens cutter. Works great for 3 axis surfacing.
i'm aware, but even then, they come in different radii, and depending on the angle/curvature of a surface, you'd need to get different tools for different surfaces. at least to be somewhat efficient, otherwise it would work maybe a tiny bit better than good ol ball mill.
