FS Brown & Sharpe #2 Surface Grinder

[marka12161]

I bought this a few years ago with the intnetion of rebuilding it but the project backlog is just too deep. The prior owner said it ran on single phase power but i did not have him power it up since it was a rebuild project. It is one of the automatic feed models and it's complete (no broken castings handles etc). The top cover for vertical positioning bevel gear is there but the tube that covers the screw needs to be replaced. The machine includes a nice 6 x 18 Brown & Sharpe magnetic chuck, an attachment for small diameter internal grinding, two grinding wheel hubs, a box of grinding wheels (some of them diamond) and special cables i made for rigging the machine and a box of belt lacing. I can load onto a trailer.

Price is $600 in Oswego NY.

Please PM me if interested.

Mark

 

[michiganbuck]

Wow no reply on this yet, I'm just marking the thread so I can follow it.
A really great machine when it's running true, pretty much one can't find a better grinder the world over.

 

[stephen thomas]

Nice job with the pix!
Appreciate an ad that a person can actually blow up and see detail. Most of them in the views shown anyway.

Looks like single speed table, so older model.
Cartrldge spindle, and a separate motor in the base for feeds?
Or is it the plain bearing version with one motor and a big belt and weights and pulleys to run everything?
Or maybe noting the single phase reference, is it a conversion of the line shaft model?

smt

 

[L Vanice]

Nice job with the pix!
Appreciate an ad that a person can actually blow up and see detail. Most of them in the views shown anyway.

Looks like single speed table, so older model.
Cartrldge spindle, and a separate motor in the base for feeds?
Or is it the plain bearing version with one motor and a big belt and weights and pulleys to run everything?
Or maybe noting the single phase reference, is it a conversion of the line shaft model?

smt

I can tell that it is newer than mine, which was built in 1929, but is quite similar. Looking closely at the lower left corner of the last picture, you can see the lump of iron on the end of the pivoted counterweight for an idler pulley for the long flat belt that connects the motor inside the base to the spindle. Mine had plain bearings, but I suppose this one could have ball bearings, but not a motorized cartridge spindle. Picture of the motor plate and the back of the grinder would help.

I bored out the spindle housing on mine and installed an XLO cartridge and put a small 3 phase motor in the base to run the table feed. Got rid of the extra pulleys on the back, of course.

Here is a manual picture of the back of a motorized circa 1929 grinder like mine. The lineshaft drive grinder did not have the counterweight arm (2528).

Larry

 

[marka12161]

I can tell that it is newer than mine, which was built in 1929, but is quite similar. Looking closely at the lower left corner of the last picture, you can see the lump of iron on the end of the pivoted counterweight for an idler pulley for the long flat belt that connects the motor inside the base to the spindle. Mine had plain bearings, but I suppose this one could have ball bearings, but not a motorized cartridge spindle. Picture of the motor plate and the back of the grinder would help.

I bored out the spindle housing on mine and installed an XLO cartridge and put a small 3 phase motor in the base to run the table feed. Got rid of the extra pulleys on the back, of course.

Here is a manual picture of the back of a motorized circa 1929 grinder like mine. The lineshaft drive grinder did not have the counterweight arm (2528).

Larry

View attachment 404185

That's pretty much what the back of the machine looks like. Some of the pulleys need to be re-bushed but that's part of the charm of a rebuild. I really would like to see this go to someone who will appreciate it and use it. I wouild love to keep it but like i said the project backlog is just too deep. Also, managing the grinding dust and/or coolant isn't something i really thought through when i bought this. I'm not gonna lie, I wouldn't mind reclaiming the space either.

 

[michiganbuck]

Plane bearings are fine if in good condition. They take a little time to warm up but IMHO give a better surface finish than a ball-bearing spindle. Usually, an oldy can be scraped to new condition, some oldies will run in tenths just the way they are.
I also think a scraped oil way travel gives a better surface finish..Yes, I have run old and brand-new grinders with most kinds of travel (Not travel on air).

 

[marka12161]

Here are the best pics i could get of the backside without moving the machine. The second pic is the back of the spindle.

 

[stephen thomas]

I'm quite fond of my #2, also.
Completely re-scraped it about 15 years ago. It was to be one of my articles for HSM magazine which i was writing for intermittently at the time. Then Walmarts ruined all 7 rolls of film for the projected 5 part article, and i never recovered the enthusiasm to take it apart and try to mock up photos again. My last ever film shooting, and last/never submitted project for HSM. Thinking about it, maybe it was almost 25 years ago - time sure flies.

Anyone who buys that, though, ought to be a little conversant. It looks good and has a period appropriate chuck, too.
The ways, esp. Z (table in/out) wear badly over years of use. Z is designed to flush crud out and down, if it is religiously kept lubed with light way oil. But there are no covers or wipers. It is easy to run dry, and the the grit laps it. Or because it runs out, people put heavier oil or grease on it and the lapping paste stays in place. There's some cool clockworks inside the apron including a beautiful flyball type inertial recovery device to slow and accelerate the table. But as the ways wear and the table/apron settles down, esp if rescraped, it becomes ever-more difficult to align the centers and such. Obviously possible, but may include moving holes and filling and tapping holes for the front plate where the external ratchets and feed increment control and cross slide screw are located. DAMHIK.

I agree with Buck (& of course he knows a lot more than me about grinders anyway) that plain bearing spindles are fine. Scraped and adjusted correctly, keep them full of light spindle oil (or even some, though not B & S, require merely kerosene) & they will grind smoother than ball bearing spindles.

Mine has a cartridge spindle, separate 3ph motor drive in the base to the table feeds, single speed table. Ball bearings have been singing since i bought it, and can still get good work out of it. I do rough passes, let it settle, and do the finish pass with incremental infeed.

smt

PS, those #2's were made from very early in the 20th c, well into the 50's (whenever the Micromasters came out?) and seem to have always been popular, so B & S did something right. Just so it can be set up and function as original. OTOH, there is a certain appeal to hydraulics sometimes.

 

[marka12161]

I'm quite fond of my #2, also.
Completely re-scraped it about 15 years ago. It was to be one of my articles for HSM magazine which i was writing for intermittently at the time. Then Walmarts ruined all 7 rolls of film for the projected 5 part article, and i never recovered the enthusiasm to take it apart and try to mock up photos again. My last ever film shooting, and last/never submitted project for HSM. Thinking about it, maybe it was almost 25 years ago - time sure flies.

Anyone who buys that, though, ought to be a little conversant. It looks good and has a period appropriate chuck, too.
The ways, esp. Z (table in/out) wear badly over years of use. Z is designed to flush crud out and down, if it is religiously kept lubed with light way oil. But there are no covers or wipers. It is easy to run dry, and the the grit laps it. Or because it runs out, people put heavier oil or grease on it and the lapping paste stays in place. There's some cool clockworks inside the apron including a beautiful flyball type inertial recovery device to slow and accelerate the table. But as the ways wear and the table/apron settles down, esp if rescraped, it becomes ever-more difficult to align the centers and such. Obviously possible, but may include moving holes and filling and tapping holes for the front plate where the external ratchets and feed increment control and cross slide screw are located. DAMHIK.

I agree with Buck (& of course he knows a lot more than me about grinders anyway) that plain bearing spindles are fine. Scraped and adjusted correctly, keep them full of light spindle oil (or even some, though not B & S, require merely kerosene) & they will grind smoother than ball bearing spindles.

Mine has a cartridge spindle, separate 3ph motor drive in the base to the table feeds, single speed table. Ball bearings have been singing since i bought it, and can still get good work out of it. I do rough passes, let it settle, and do the finish pass with incremental infeed.

smt

PS, those #2's were made from very early in the 20th c, well into the 50's (whenever the Micromasters came out?) and seem to have always been popular, so B & S did something right. Just so it can be set up and function as original. OTOH, there is a certain appeal to hydraulics sometimes.

Stephen, Thanks for the thorough description of the wear processes and fixes. I'm more convinced than ever that this would be a great restoration project for someone who wants to really reverse engineer the design, correct any wear or defects found and have a beautiful old functional grinder when done. Probably not a good fit for someone who just wants to clean and paint.

A bit off topic but i've toyed with the idea of cleaning and painting the machines i'm working on but i'm off of it. Driving the oil and grease out of the cast iron is beyond the scope of my ability and I view painting castings that are oil soaked as an exercise in futility.

 

[michiganbuck]

Good to carefully fine file nicks and bruises from hand wheel numbers never going deeper than the original surface, then one might abrasive paper with very fine paper(or not).
(X) never wire brush dial numbers because that rounds the edges and looks poor...

 

[marka12161]

Here's a bit of a bump on this. If no one is interested in this, i'll hold on to it and keep it on the project backlog until i can get to it. While i wouldn't mind reclaiming the space, the footprint isn't all that big and it would be a fun project. Once complete, it would be very handy for tool making.

 

[marka12161]

Another bump. I'll give it another week or so and if no interest by then, i'll stop with the bumps.

 

[Conrad Hoffman]

We're looking for a small surface grinder for the place I work at in Victor, NY. I'll see if I can drum up any interest.

 

[marka12161]

We're looking for a small surface grinder for the place I work at in Victor, NY. I'll see if I can drum up any interest.

Thanks Conrad

 

[Conrad Hoffman]

This a proving to be a hard sell here. The open belts are a concern in a business because of OSHA. We'd have to make a belt guard and that's one more thing in the way of getting it running. Not giving up yet, but odds are 50/50.

 

[marka12161]

This a proving to be a hard sell here. The open belts are a concern in a business because of OSHA. We'd have to make a belt guard and that's one more thing in the way of getting it running. Not giving up yet, but odds are 50/50.

Thanks Conrad. Not a big deal either way. Like i said above, this is a perfect project machine for a hobbiest who enjoys rebuilding. If i can't find someone who wants to take it on, i'll likely just hold onto it and maybe rebuild it myself.