What's new
What's new

Fusion 360 RIPS OFF subscription customers by removing multiaxis tool paths

Antarctica

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Location
Annapolis, Maryland
What to say? I mean the writing was on the wall all along wasn't it? In this particular case, no-one can even bitch that hindsight is 20-20.

Back when this pile of shit was 'free', how many people signed up to 'pay' (with their time) to learn it only to be beta testers of the paid product. So many people even predicted this and yet all the people that wanted 'free' from a commercial company, with history of shitting on products, competitors, and even their own customers, piled on with how great it was. One needed to only try to do anything more than the most basic modeling - i.e., just try a moderately complex assembly model, and you knew it wasn't anything compared to a proven commercial product (solid works).

I feel for you guys that invested hard time learning it and building around it. But right now, I bet a set of solidworks with not-so-great 'free' CAMWorks looks mighty f'ing cheap.

Stop throwing good time and money after bad.
 

csharp

Stainless
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Location
PA
Just got an email. Solidworks price increase April 1st. 5%-19% on desktop products.
 

Billy_C

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 18, 2022
I don't know... Fusion and Autodesk has always been flaky from day one with the way they tier their products. It seems like rearranging should be expected at this point. Apparently the 5ax toolpaths have matured to the point where the Fusion team thinks they can reliably make people more money so of course they want a small cut of that. Also, they are still able to just name their price because who else is even touching it right now in that price range?
 

APW

Plastic
Joined
Mar 1, 2022
I have been considering 360 for a HAAS Minimill in my garage. I like 360 but I've been using a friend's account and it's about time I get my own. This thread scares me now.
 

BT Fabrication

Stainless
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
it was dirt cheap compared to others at $8K+ up to 20K for some more advanced machining strategies. just think, they can see everything that is done on the cloud and record what is happening and how much with any sort of software in the background. its the ol hook, line and reel em in strategy, sure some will spit the hook out 10-20% of the time but 80% is better then 0% on there end.
 

MaxPrairie

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
I have been considering 360 for a HAAS Minimill in my garage. I like 360 but I've been using a friend's account and it's about time I get my own. This thread scares me now.

Give Sprutcam a try. As far as I can tell it is still a one time payment and is great for 3 axis work. I am not affiliated with them at all but there is a trial version. Some things are better than fusion some not as good.
 

Stirling

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Location
Alberta canada
I emailed them my consern and got a actual phone call in 14 hours. you should do the same!
not that the call helped but i told him essentially they where stealing from their paid clients and have negatively effected my small company which paid for their service, require recosting of jobs to now pay for this change (one man band here)
I took the time to write an email that he could pass on to the powers that be, some compliments, some critizizm and some potential remodies to the curent retardation. Pm me if you would like contact infornmation to contact thier team with regards to this matter, it is compleatly unnaceptable. if you know any lawyers that submit class actions here is a easy case and willing participents. Big tech needs some push back somethimes.

In saying that, i (begrudgingly) understand priceincreases, but as stated in th letter below, it is absolitly wrong to remove services already paid for when there are customer friendly solutions to the problem. I hope they will read my letter.



"Good Day and thank you for reaching out to me with regards to my concern.

As a forward I would like to acknowledge Autodesk’s successful market penetration into the CAD/CAM space by its (at the time) unorthodox and industry disruptive marketing plan. Free powerful software available to the masses fostered unprecedented software adoption not only in the traditional marketplace, but expanding offering into markets that where unserved/poorly served, such as the hobby/inventor market. This unique offering allowed an unprecedented growth in development and ideas throughout these communities, enabling anyone with a computer to create, design and produce products, then move on to start the dream company they never thought possible. A true innovation in the manufacturing space.
For this I would like to thank your team. I personally went from no CAD/CAM experience to watching NYC CNC/ Lars Christensen YouTube vids for inspiration and learning to now owning a small one-man CNC machine shop where I design and produce my own products. Truly amazing.

In this journey of development and business ownership I have learned a lot about what is expected of Me, and what I can expect from my vendors. In business there are ups and down, right and wrong choices, but what sets the ground work for long term partnerships is Trust. Trust in the quality, reliability, stability, and openness for correction when a misstep has happened.
My relationship with the Autodesk Fusion 360 product has been a consistent and valued resource as the software has matured into a feature rich staple platform for my small business’s use.

As with everything in life things change and as your software has matured new and powerful features have been added that are not always provided with the base subscription, though disappointing, decisions like this are completely understandable as these development costs must be amortized for the business to continue to offer new features, base included or through extension programs.

What concerns me today is Autodesk’s decision to remove functionality from the base software package included in the software subscription. I have come to trust Autodesk to continue to move lock and step with my past experience and expectation. New features come, some integrated into the base package, some withing a paywall. But never loosing functionality of the software already paid for. This week’s announcements came as a shock to me that not only would original functionality be removed from the software, but this functionality would be taken from users that have signed up and paid for that functionality. It is akin to a 3-year automobile lease for $400/year, but 1 year in the manufacture comes to take a single wheel form the car, stating it is no longer included in the original agreement, but is now included in the “luxury Package” for a ongoing fee of $200/month. This change in auto policy may take place upon renewal, but not in the midst of an agreed upon term. As with the automobile, users have paid Autodesk for set length terms for functionality of fusion360 software and it in unethical to remove functionality that has already been agreed upon and paid for.

As stated, in business there are ups and downs, and mistakes will be made. It is the corrective actions to these mistakes that build future partnerships or erode trust long term. I would encourage your team to consider this when reviewing my concerns with regards to the current software update and removal of “swarf machining, multi-axis contour, multi-axis tilting (for 3D contour), and multi-axis flow functionality.” From subscribed users still within their current agreed upon and paid for term. Upon renewal it would be disappointing to lose a feature and some may calculate that into there business decision to stay within the Autodesk environment, but to remove functionality before then is untenable.

Knowing my history with your product and current concern, I would like of offer a suggestion that I believe is a tenable solution to my concern.

Forgive my ignorance of software coding, but I would like to assume the loss of function taking place may be a result of software changes, not corporate pricing strategy. A solution to current subscriptions that have paid for this functionality would be to simply grant them the manufacturing extensions for the remaining duration of their paid term (1,2,3 years as agreed upon). Not only would this allow the continued use of the already paid for functionality, but would further expand those subscribers’ capabilities for the term. This would provide the opportunity to benefit from the manufacturing extension and seeing its value first hand. Ideally generating income from the improved workflow that may then be used to pay for the extension upon renewal. The choice to renew is the customers decision with the then offered package no longer including multi axis. It should be the customers decision to lose function upon renewal, not taken during a term. I truly cannot stress this enough.
Haas CNC machines use a similar strategy whereas all software options come with a 200-hour demo (this demo timer may be turned on and off to preserve it until needed) many times that 200 hours use more than pays for the upgrade and it becomes an easy choice to then pay for it.

As I originally stated I believe the grassroots marketing style of fusion 360 was truly genius and of great benefit to budding inventors/businesses letting loose creativity and innovation globally. Fusion 360 became the “drug of choice” for creative minds to unleash potential, with this in mind I would like to offer another suggestion within fusion360 pricing/demo structure. Currently 1 time, 7-day trials are offered to demo options, but with busy schedules it is rare that anyone will learn and use a function in 7 days well enough to see the massive benefits possible, perhaps they think there may be a use 3 month later, but then the pay wall is there. Is the boss willing to throw dollars at it on a maybe? And surely the hobbyist will not. I feel this is a missed opportunity for both parties. Revisiting an interesting idea/method spur continued innovation, that is what made fusion360’s adoption so successful. In light of this I offer 2 interesting ideas. One being simply shorten the demo period, but have it reset monthly. 3 days a month use should demonstrate to company its value, and 3 days a month allows basement innovators to set aside a weekend a month to do truly creative things, post to YouTube and further grow your brand integration in the community. Alternatively, you could use the cloud credit system to make this a reoccurring benefit to users. This is used in the videogame industry every day, whereas simply being a user gives a small credit that accumulates for the user to then choose what they want. For free users receive a small credit, and paid users receive a larger “allowance” to spend as they see fit. When a function is found that cannot be lived without it becomes very easy to then purchase it permanently.

So, there it is, my praise, concerns, and suggestions. I hope that the time I have allocated to address my thoughts is taken into consideration. My time is valuable as is relationships with vendors such as yourself."
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
It's not about the money. It's about hitching yourself (or business) to a company that doesn't mind screwing over the customer whenever they see fit.

Principles and business ethics are the issues here.

I think that is a common theme with a lot of fee based companies these days, keep trying to squeeze more and more out of customers to see what they can get away with. Look at E-bay, they have pretty much tripled their percentage cut from when they started. As for software, glad I can get buy with cut & paste programming along with using 30 year old trig software I purchased.
 

Radar987

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Location
CA
Has anyone actually confirmed that those who prepaid for an extended subscription will lose functionality BEFORE their subscription is up for renewal? I'm not convinced that's the case.

Just like how when you cancel a subscription to say, Netflix or your buddy's OnlyFans, you still get access until the renewal date.

Not defending Autodesk. I don't even use Fusion.
 

Radar987

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Location
CA
Just got an email. Solidworks price increase April 1st. 5%-19% on desktop products.

They have to somehow cover the costs of employees working from home and the supply chain shortages that in no way affect a digital product.
 

BugRobotics

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Location
Denver, CO
Has anyone actually confirmed that those who prepaid for an extended subscription will lose functionality BEFORE their subscription is up for renewal? I'm not convinced that's the case.

Just like how when you cancel a subscription to say, Netflix or your buddy's OnlyFans, you still get access until the renewal date.

Not defending Autodesk. I don't even use Fusion.
Yes it is confirmed. Now it appears as though they are walking back that assertion if you call and ask? Check out the Autodesk forum link above for details.

Strange times when you have to ask for something you've already purchased. Feels like some sort of game you'd see in the twilight zone.
 

Stirling

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Location
Alberta canada
Has anyone actually confirmed that those who prepaid for an extended subscription will lose functionality BEFORE their subscription is up for renewal? I'm not convinced that's the case.

Just like how when you cancel a subscription to say, Netflix or your buddy's OnlyFans, you still get access until the renewal date.

Not defending Autodesk. I don't even use Fusion.

I can absolutly confirm, I ave spoken on the phone ith them twice for a total of over an hour.

$1600/year is not wild, but thats not the point. People paid for this function. to remove it is paramount to stealing or breach of contract IMO.
its simple enought to simply keep the function while adding the improved one to the extensions package. as per a software programer.

its simple enough to simply grant the extension to everyone untill their term is up (tho a little unfair to those who paid?)

its about morals and trust in my opinion.

i worte the above letter aftermmy first conversation, the representative said its easier to present a case when in writing, after another conversation today i will be summerizing it again for him to present.

I need to TRUST that they will not remove functions. I am a one man band, $1600 is a chunk for me.

and really, loosing this for the hobbiest sucks too, they make lots of online content that i then reference to learn when i make mistakes in the software. the fact it was SOOOO accsessable was part of its growth. they really need to keep that in mind. I happily pay my subbscription fee. no issues there. but trust is the core of any vendor partnership. this violates that trust. they now know and ave the option to prove mistakes happen and they are the type of industry partner that rectifys mistakes and can be relied upon.


an interesting mention the rep had was asking me what i thought of advanced features being availible on the weekends free to all. Id love to hear what you all think of that.
it lets people learn, test lots. small operations could sneak in some use, and if its very usefull purchase it. I dunno, that would be pretty darn cool imo. i do most of my learning on the weekends anyways.
 

Radar987

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Location
CA
its about morals and trust in my opinion.

More than that, it's about law. I don't know how they slipped this one past their lawyers.

Doesn't matter what the EULA says. It's legally unenforceable to bait and switch after someone has already PREPAID for a 3 year subscription.

What if you subscribed to 10 years of Playboy magazine and 5 years in, they started sending you Playgirl instead?
 

BugRobotics

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Location
Denver, CO
More than that, it's about law. I don't know how they slipped this one past their lawyers.

Doesn't matter what the EULA says. It's legally unenforceable to bait and switch after someone has already PREPAID for a 3 year subscription.

What if you subscribed to 10 years of Playboy magazine and 5 years in, they started sending you Playgirl instead?

If I read the EULA correct, they are only obligated to provide the service as purchased for 90 days. Section 5.1.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
its about morals and trust in my opinion.

I see where you're coming from, but the writing was on the wall. AD has already proven, repeatedly, that they cannot be trusted. "Of course we'll continue to support $product1 that we bought out!" Next year: "Sorry, $product1 has been discontinued. You can now buy $product2 to regain that same functionality!"

If you trusted them, you made a mistake.
 

BugRobotics

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Location
Denver, CO
What if you paid before they showed you the EULA?
I'm not a lawyer. That would seem like they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you pressed for the as purchased features. My guess is Autodesk covers their ass with some legal documents in the payment process. No idea though.

EDIT: The EULA covers any use of the software. So if you use it, regardless of when/how you purchased, you agree to the terms. I'm guessing you could have recourse to get your money back before agreeing to the EULA.
 

dangerboy

Plastic
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Vancouver BC
I'm another pissed off user. The high handed way these guys force updates and provide no customer service (other than the other users!) makes my blood boil. I bought into this product and can live with the endless updates, but this is something else. One feature I now have to pay $1600 for. Nothing else is something I want or need. They have to know if anything else comes along, customers will leave like rats abandoning a sinking ship. Unfortunately there might not be for a long time.
I feel that the CAD/CAM industry has long needed a simple 3 axis product with a 4th as an add on. Small shops and home gamers would flock to this, as they did with F360. Only one that won't bone it's customers...
 








 
Top