Gorton 1-22 Drawbar Removal? Head Disassembly and Rebuild

[dalmatiangirl61]

My Gorton 1-22 has been making a rattling sound in the head, got noticeably worse last week, tried using it Sunday and something is clearly binding up. One of the first steps to getting the variable drive apart (per the manual) is removing the drawbar. Made a tool for it last night, reefed on it with an 18" breaker bar, then added a 24" cheater, and bent the tool. No mention in manual about LH threads, so I'm working on assumption they are RH.

Can anyone confirm they are RH threads? Can I get the variable speed unit and motor out without removing drawbar?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Cut the bent ears of, cut/filed in new ears, dogs, whatever you want to call them. I really thought the cheater bar would break it free last time, need confirmation its a RH thread before I try again. Maybe I should try an impact wrench instead?

 

[EmGo]

Cut the bent ears of, cut/filed in new ears, dogs, whatever you want to call them. I really thought the cheater bar would break it free last time, need confirmation its a RH thread before I try again.

I don't know about yours but mine was definitely left-hand ...

You're talking about the hollow capture nut at the top of the spindle, right ? The one the drawbar pushes up against when you release a collet ? Left hand. I had to make one. Yours may be a little tight now

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

I don't know about yours but mine was definitely left-hand ...

You're talking about the hollow capture nut at the top of the spindle, right ? The one the drawbar pushes up against when you release a collet ? Left hand. I had to make one. Yours may be a little tight now

Yes, the capture nut. Guess that explains why it did not break free..... I'll make a notation in the manual for the next poor schmuck, which might be me. I'm hoping the main problem is just bearings in the vari-drive and gears, spindle was nice and cool, something further up was generating heat. Spindle was slowing down/speeding up last week, the noise got worse and every now and then heard a loud click, took lighter cuts just to finish the job, on Sunday it was bound up

Edit: Thank you!

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

It is most of the way apart, except for spindle, debating whether or not to go there, those bearings feel fine. Bearings at base of front pulley/upper housing are crunchy. Where I'm stuck now is the counter shaft, the bearing on it has lots of sideplay, hit it a few times fairly hard with a slide hammer, but its not pulling out, don't see anything holding it in. Hit harder?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Everything is apart, waiting for bearings. Did not want to use the .150" thick nut to slidehammer the shaft/bearing pictured above out, so I used the nut to make a test plug, then used the test plug to cut the threads to make a heavy duty nut that would engage all the threads on that shaft to slidehammer it out. The thread on that shaft is .780" - 32tpi, so a 3/4" - 32tpi tap won't work.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

The next fun part was getting the bearings out of the housing, tried an adjustable spanner first, but could not get any leverage working inside the housing. Next try was a dull chisel, 2 good hits and nut did not move, and it was deforming the groove in nut, so I stopped while I was still ahead and made another tool. The drive dogs are only .100" long, so I used all-thread to make sure they did not slip, thought the handles would be long enough to allow me to spin nut out, that did not work, so I proceeded to hammer on them till it broke free. Tool was made from 2" scrap pipe, formed the drive dogs with file and hacksaw, centering plug made on lathe, then welded the 2 together. The bearings in this housing were the main source of the problem, somehow it had eaten the shield away from one of the bearings till it looked like a wavy washer and both were quite crunchy.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Matched set precision bearing question. The 2 bearings in the bull gear are a matched set of precision bearings, and not inexpensive, I see a polished dot on the outer races that face each other, and a polished dot on the inner races that face outward. To reassemble these should I be trying to get all the dots in alignment?

Plan is to repack them with spindle grease, old grease was getting hard.

 

[EmGo]

Matched set precision bearing question. The 2 bearings in the bull gear are a matched set of precision bearings, and not inexpensive, I see a polished dot on the outer races that face each other, and a polished dot on the inner races that face outward. To reassemble these should I be trying to get all the dots in alignment?

Plan is to repack them with spindle grease, old grease was getting hard.

Normally all dots should line up, yeah. Inside and outside won't stay that way, obviously

You say "pack", I'm sure you know this but just in case, don't overfill. They don't like that any more than no grease at all ..

The other thing ... these are just the tranny bearings you're doing, not the spindle ? Depending on how bad they are, I'm not sure new commercial ones would not be better than wore-out precision ones. Gorton would use class 5 on the toilet flush handle but not so sure they make a difference on a belt drive.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Yes, thinking about it, one of my questions was "would the dots stay lined up", and I don't think they would, but without "momma" (original mfr) to call home to, I'm left to asking the void of the internet.

Yes, I know there is a fine line between too much, and not enough, but not sure where that line is? The old grease was lumpy and hard, I have a new tub of softer "spindle grease" from McMaster, would have to look up my order history to determine the actual flavor and consistency. Off hand, I'd call it a little lighter than standard axle grease. If you have a recommendation, speak up now

Yes, these are the bearings in the bull gear of the varidrive head, not the actual spindle. These bearings "felt ok", but I had decided to replace all the bearings "as long as I'm here", until I saw the price of replacements. Are they original, I don't know. There are some clues that lead me to believe others have been in here before, but I can't call Momma for an answer.....

I'm still contemplating getting into the actual spindle bearings, judging by the old hard grease I've seen, they might need some fresh grease, at least to last 20 more years..... I don't know about you, but I'm finding some solace in the 20 year schedule, after that it's someone else's problem, LOL.

Edit: Info from tub of spindle grease,, PTFE-Lithium Complex, Dropping Point +500F/+260C, NLGI Grade 1, Extreme Pressure Protection. If not the right stuff, please advise.

 

[EmGo]

Yes, thinking about it, one of my questions was "would the dots stay lined up", and I don't think they would,

This is ancient information from Lumley Spindle Service but maybe that's suitable, these are ancient machines we're talking about ... the dots are for when you have double bearings. They are the high point of runout, so when you have two bearings together, put them lined up so the two bearings aren't fighting each other. If there's only one bearing there's nothing to line them up to, inside and outside of course won't stay lined up, if they do you gots a problem, houston

Yes, I know there is a fine line between too much, and not enough, but not sure where that line is?

Easy enough to look online but I remember about 1/3 of the bearing filled ? No more than that.

These bearings "felt ok", but I had decided to replace all the bearings "as long as I'm here",

I'm absolutely no good at telling if bearings are good or not by feel, so if it is at all important I replace them. Don't listen to me 'cuz nobody with any sense does but in this situation, where it's just the varidrive, not the spindle, I'd go new commercial because my feel is so bad and I would not want to take it apart again.

If I did that I'd want to go sealed.

I think the quill/spindle comes out from the bottom, so don't have to worry about that at this time.

I'm still contemplating getting into the actual spindle bearings, judging by the old hard grease I've seen, they might need some fresh grease, at least to last 20 more years.....

Yeah, I did mine after about two weeks solid of using the mill for a broach, it wasn't that difficult but they are expensive. Again, depending on what you do ? I'm not so sure that quality commercial bearings aren't a better deal than blownup precision bearings. In the varidrive I'd definitely go that way, in the spindle, hmmm. But probably. If you are doing mostly repair work ? Should be okay ?

We probably have something here, ningbo is the bearing capitol of the world, but that's too iffy for some people ?

I don't know about you, but I'm finding some solace in the 20 year schedule, after that it's someone else's problem, LOL.

20 ? It is to laugh

Edit: Info from tub of spindle grease,, PTFE-Lithium Complex, Dropping Point +500F/+260C, NLGI Grade 1, Extreme Pressure Protection. If not the right stuff, please advise.

For grease, again Lumley but they had me using this red colored almost clear stuff, Unbrako or Realslippo or something like that. I am not a big fan of those lithium greases, they dpn't seem to cling or last. The white one is good for engine assembly because it washes right out as soon as the engine has oil pressure but that doesn't seem like what you want in a mill spindle. Recently I was using a red wheel bearing grease that was a lot like the stuff from before, will ask what it was. It was pretty nice.

btw, seems to me if anyone should know about dots/spots, it'd be you.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Any suggestions on what to use for brake shoes? The inner shoe is about gone, thinking odds of finding some NOS ones is mighty slim, but no idea what to make them from. These are hard as a rock, not sure if that was how they were new, or if they've just hardened with age, they make an awful grinding sound when engaged, so I don't use them much.

 

[EmGo]

Any suggestions on what to use for brake shoes?

Whatever you use, make sure it has asbestos

Just kidding, don't you do a lot of automotive ? Has all that brake shoe relining stuff gone away ? Maybe Bob is right, abusive old dinosaur !

 

[Jim Christie]

I'm not familiar with how that works on the pulley or brake disc of a Gorton but they reminded me of something I had seen on an old Skidoo (Snowmobile ) my father had a long time ago.
Maybe something from one of those could be adapted if you don't find something better.

vintage ski doo brake pads - Google Search

Perhaps also from a garden tractor or ATV but that's just a guess.
Perhaps there aren't many old snow machines where you live though.
Jim

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

I'm not familiar with how that works on the pulley or brake disc of a Gorton but they reminded me of something I had seen on an old Skidoo (Snowmobile ) my father had a long time ago.

The shaft has Left and Right hand threads so when rotated it squeezes the shoes onto lower edge of the variable speed pulley, I assume the step belt version works the same way. I think they can be knocked out from the back side of the bronze housings, not sure if pressed in or glued in. I decided I was not going to find them today, and probably going to have to mill them out of something, so I went ahead and just put them back in, someday I'll revisit the problem.

E.G.
I threw away several boxes of NOS brake shoes and pads when cleaning out the last shop, just need 1 set of mystery pads now. I'm not sure if you can just buy the raw material anymore, and certainly not the good stuff with asbestos. I'll make some inquiries and see if anyone has some soft pads laying around.

 

[4GSR]

McMaster-Carr carries brake lining material in a variety of sizes.
On the 9-J Gorton mills we had; I remember the braking mechanism with the two threads running in opposite directions from each other. I just flat don't remember what the brake material was. I started to say cast iron, but I know that is not correct.

Interested the spindle bearings are packed with grease. All three of the 9-J Gorton mills we had drip fed oil from the very top of the head. If you forgot to seat the needle valve at the end of the day, you would come in the next morning with a puddle of oil on the vise or table.