Haas UMC 500 alternatives

[updatedsecurity]

Hello
I am in the market for a relatively affordable 5 axis machine. So far the UMC 500 at around 147 k is coming in as the most affordable. What else is out there. The other option for us is the okuma Genos 560 with a trunion at around 180k. I know they are completely different machines. I like the haas because it's cheap and has a bigger envelope for 5 axis than an okuma. I like the okuma because I can sometimes remove the trunion and cut bigger parts, though the 5 axis on it is small. About us. We do a little bit of everything. Mostly pretty work rather than high tolerance work

 

[Garwood]

I hear good things about Swissmak.

 

[updatedsecurity]

I'm not sure swissmak will fit our desire to make real parts out of real materials.

 

[mhajicek]

From what I hear, due to thermal growth issues, a UMC-500 is a .005" machine. You'd probably get tighter tolerances putting a trunnion on a VF or VM.

 

[Stirling]

I’ve heard a trunnion on a haas vertical has better accuracy than the umc series.
Mind you they have that new umc350. That looks interesting(ish)
Or a haas Tm with a trunnion would be the cheapest….
Not knowing what your part size/tolerance is makes it awfully hard to make any recommendations tho,

 

[updatedsecurity]

From what I hear, due to thermal growth issues, a UMC-500 is a .005" machine. You'd probably get tighter tolerances putting a trunnion on a VF or VM.

I think we can work with this. Would you know of other machines in that space? Haas can't be the only one. With a trunion haas there would be less space for the 5 axis work and the costs would be similar. At least from what I saw on their site

 

[updatedsecurity]

I’ve heard a trunnion on a haas vertical has better accuracy than the umc series.
Mind you they have that new umc350. That looks interesting(ish)
Or a haas Tm with a trunnion would be the cheapest….
Not knowing what your part size/tolerance is makes it awfully hard to make any recommendations tho,

Hello.

Parts are all over the place. All are not very high tolerance. Mainly aluminum. Biggest part is about 17x2.5x1.5 inches. I could possibly squeeze it into a umc500. Mostly I want the machine for positioning to reduce setups

 

[mhajicek]

I think we can work with this. Would you know of other machines in that space? Haas can't be the only one. With a trunion haas there would be less space for the 5 axis work and the costs would be similar. At least from what I saw on their site

I made Titanium orthopedic plates and other medical device parts on a VF-3SS with a trunnion for six years, and I was fairly pleased with the machine. Thermal growth in Z was about a thou; X and Y stayed within .0002". I have a client who is seriously considering an Okuma; we checked them out together, and they look like very solid machines. Not quite to the level of Hermle, but there's a price difference proportional to that.

If you need to swing a 17" + part, you could always use one of these:

TR210 | Trunnion | 5-Axis Rotaries | Rotaries and Indexers – Haas CNC Machines

www.haascnc.com

One thing I really like about the Haas VMC with an add-on rotary, is you can change things up. I'll spend most of the time with no rotary, a little time with the fourth axis, and once in a while put the fifth axis on, depending on what the job demands. Just power down, swap the plugs, start up, change some settings, and reboot again. Takes about 15 minutes, not including mechanically aligning the rotary.

 

[Orange Vise]

Check out the Brother U500.

 

[gregormarwick]

One thing I really like about the Haas VMC with an add-on rotary, is you can change things up. I'll spend most of the time with no rotary, a little time with the fourth axis, and once in a while put the fifth axis on, depending on what the job demands. Just power down, swap the plugs, start up, change some settings, and reboot again. Takes about 15 minutes, not including mechanically aligning the rotary.

Not any kind of recommendation for this thread specifically, but this is one of the things I liked about the Hurcos. There is nothing to change, as they will reconfigure themselves automatically at startup depending on whether the rotaries are plugged in or not.

 

[Areo Defense]

We have a number of UMC 500SS's and they're decent for the money, especially given how user friendly the control is. Our most recent 500SS is equipped with the 20+1 pallet pool with fixturing for dovetailed blanks and there is also a 10+1 pool with larger pallets available. We hold within .001 all day long cutting aerospace and defense parts. I haven't looked at other machines in that class so I have no comment there. If you need a pallet pool, the 500 is a decent machine. As others have said, if you need the flexibility then you might go with a vertical + trunnion. Another similar setup, if your parts are smallish, is a TRT for 5-axis and keep some table room open for vises.

 

[updatedsecurity]

Check out the Brother U500.

Hello.

I think it's coming in at around 170k. I'll check.

 

[updatedsecurity]

I made Titanium orthopedic plates and other medical device parts on a VF-3SS with a trunnion for six years, and I was fairly pleased with the machine. Thermal growth in Z was about a thou; X and Y stayed within .0002". I have a client who is seriously considering an Okuma; we checked them out together, and they look like very solid machines. Not quite to the level of Hermle, but there's a price difference proportional to that.

If you need to swing a 17" + part, you could always use one of these:

TR210 | Trunnion | 5-Axis Rotaries | Rotaries and Indexers – Haas CNC Machines

www.haascnc.com

One thing I really like about the Haas VMC with an add-on rotary, is you can change things up. I'll spend most of the time with no rotary, a little time with the fourth axis, and once in a while put the fifth axis on, depending on what the job demands. Just power down, swap the plugs, start up, change some settings, and reboot again. Takes about 15 minutes, not including mechanically aligning the rotary.

Hello

Thank you. I am getting this priced out as well. I have an older vf2 with a rotary so hopefully if we go this way I can get it running faster.

 

[updatedsecurity]

I might as well ask. Are there Chinese or taiwanese machines I should look at?

 

[gregormarwick]

I might as well ask. Are there Chinese or taiwanese machines I should look at?

Yes, and I'd take any of these over the Haas even if they were more expensive.

Disclaimer: I do not have experience with these machines directly, only the MTB.

https://www.victortaichung.com/machine-tools/en/Vcenter-AX630.html - bigger than the UMC 500, but their next smaller machine is a C frame machine

https://www.quaser.com/products/detail-26 - pretty comparable size-wise to the UMC 500

No experience of my own with this MTB, but I'm told they're good:

Tongtai - 5-axis Machining Center - GT-500

Tongtai GT series adopts gantry type structure, 5-axis simultaneous machining can complete complex processes in one-sitting, the trunnion table is driven by built-in DD motor, allowing for high precision and high rotation speed.

www.tongtai.com.tw

 

[rklopp]

DN Solutions DVF 400 or DVF 500 cost too much?

DVF Series | 5-Axis Vertical Machining | DN… | DN Solutions America

Done messing with multiple setups? We get it. The DVF 5000 5-axis vertical machining center was built with your shop’s efficiency in mind.

www.dn-solutions.us

 

[updatedsecurity]

Hello.
Yes. I think I got quoted above 200k

 

[rickyt]

How about this?

KTR-1200 6 Axis Machining Center | Kuraki America Corporation

Kuraki KTR-1200 6 Axis Machining Center provides “ONE SET UP” high precision machining with proven CNC horizontal boring mill technology through the integration of a large built-in rotary trunnion table providing capacities up to 60” in diameter.

kuraki.com

 

[Vancbiker]

How about this?

KTR-1200 6 Axis Machining Center | Kuraki America Corporation

Kuraki KTR-1200 6 Axis Machining Center provides “ONE SET UP” high precision machining with proven CNC horizontal boring mill technology through the integration of a large built-in rotary trunnion table providing capacities up to 60” in diameter.

kuraki.com

Thought the OP was looking for competition to a UMC500, not a machine you can fit one into.

 

[mhajicek]

Thought the OP was looking for competition to a UMC500, not a machine you can fit one into.

Talk about eating the competition!

That would be some promotional video; turn the competitor's machine into a pile of chips.