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There is so much hypocrisy but I don’t think it’s relegated to just Western Governments. The real difference, the westerners are free to point out and criticize that hypocrisy. Try that in China, Russia and many of the other enlightened countries including the Middle East.
I'm not going to speak for Middle Eastern countries as I'm not so well versed, but if you think that Chinese and Russian citizens don't enjoy lively debate about the failings of their own governments you are sorely mistaken.
 
I'm not going to speak for Middle Eastern countries as I'm not so well versed, but if you think that Chinese and Russian citizens don't enjoy lively debate about the failings of their own governments you are sorely mistaken.
I’m sure they do, in private. Surely you don’t believe that they are able to criticize their governments as openly as we westerners do. If so, I respectfully disagree.
 
The hypocrisy of the Western governments is staggering.

Putin, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s sanction him, let’s call for him to be tried as a war criminal etc, etc.
Netanyahu, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s get right behind him, let’s send him all the arms and financial support he needs etc, etc.

Regards Tyrone

The difference is this: how many Ukrainian terrorists attacked Russia? How many Israeli terrorists attacked Palestine? One is fighting (or more accurately, attempting to fight; arguably not in a very good manner, nor with great results) terrorists. One is just trying to take territory that belongs to another country. It could be argued that Israel did some of that with their settlements as well, which they should not have done.
 
The hypocrisy of the Western governments is staggering.

Putin, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s sanction him, let’s call for him to be tried as a war criminal etc, etc.
Netanyahu, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s get right behind him, let’s send him all the arms and financial support he needs etc, etc.

Regards Tyrone
both situations all governments are corrupt Russia, Ukraine, Israel, and Palestine...and then you get to the US...
 
The hypocrisy of the Western governments is staggering.

Putin, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s sanction him, let’s call for him to be tried as a war criminal etc, etc.
Netanyahu, what a bastard, he’s killing thousands of innocent civilians, let’s get right behind him, let’s send him all the arms and financial support he needs etc, etc.

Regards Tyrone
Putin targets civilians.

Israel targets Hamas but is okay with hitting Palestinian civilians who get in the way. It just so happens that everyone is in the way.

Would you let your enemy live to fight another day and sacrifice your own to save theirs?

Not sure if that's hypocrisy.
 
Most westerners think this war is unfounded, that is why we should stay out of it.

Breaking into Israel to kill and kidnap un armed people seems wrong.
That the Israel economy was so way better than the Gaza economy seem wrong.
That governments took Palestine and gave it to the Israelites seems wrong.
There is no easy answer.. that is why we should but-out , fund nobody, and try to just run the USA.
Earth quake, hurricane, natural disaster is where help is needed.
Israel is rich enough and they don't offer much aid to other countries.
We give hundred billions like that is chump change, it is a lot of money.

Set a precedent of paying big bucks for kidnaped and many more will be kidnaped
Pay Iran a billion each was a joke. Everybody needs to go into the kidnapping business.
 
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The difference is this: how many Ukrainian terrorists attacked Russia? How many Israeli terrorists attacked Palestine? One is fighting (or more accurately, attempting to fight; arguably not in a very good manner, nor with great results) terrorists. One is just trying to take territory that belongs to another country. It could be argued that Israel did some of that with their settlements as well, which they should not have done.
Check your counting data. You may be under the influence of false premise.

Ukraine was killing ethnic Russians in Donbas for YEARS, and no one said a word.
And now, Azerbaijan in Armenia........ Jews in Palestine... Serbs and Croats
Pakistani and Afghani, Shite vs Shinola!
 
Check your counting data. You may be under the influence of false premise.

Ukraine was killing ethnic Russians in Donbas for YEARS, and no one said a word.
And now, Azerbaijan in Armenia........ Jews in Palestine... Serbs and Croats
Pakistani and Afghani, Shite vs Shinola!

Links? Were they terrorists? Who provided that information? As always, optics are everything.

This is about all I see on the Ukrainian "genocide."

 
Jeesus! Where have you been since 2014 Maidan?

It's a wonder anything good happens on this earth.

That doesn't really help. The article I linked regarding Ukraine appears to show that there was no genocide. It looks to me like it was investigated and found to be a misinformation campaign by Russia to justify their seizure of territory. Anybody can say anything. Without verification and proof it's just hot air. The wiki link has some fairly credible statements from much more credible places than Russia in the Reactions section.
 
Putin is meeting with Hamas and Iran to plan stage two of the Gaza War ...........stage one has been successful in diverting attention from Ukraine ......stage two will isolate Ukraine,and stop the NATO weapon supplies.
 
That doesn't really help. The article I linked regarding Ukraine appears to show that there was no genocide. It looks to me like it was investigated and found to be a misinformation campaign by Russia to justify their seizure of territory. Anybody can say anything. Without verification and proof it's just hot air. The wiki link has some fairly credible statements from much more credible places than Russia in the Reactions section.
Check through the history of reporter Patrick Lancaster.

He is a character, but is "on scene" with the details.

There are others reporting as well. Call then independents.
 
I watch the news program called "Democracy Now" on channel 9-3 from 9 pm to 10 pm M-F.
They report in a way that appears to be pro-Palestinian. In fact they just report about injustice.

 
That doesn't really help. The article I linked regarding Ukraine appears to show that there was no genocide. It looks to me like it was investigated and found to be a misinformation campaign by Russia to justify their seizure of territory. Anybody can say anything. Without verification and proof it's just hot air. The wiki link has some fairly credible statements from much more credible places than Russia in the Reactions section.

We've been over this ad nauseum in the original Ukraine thread, and I know you were reading along. "Genocide" is semantics, it depends on how many dead you consider a "Genocide". I agree that Russia are pushing the word as a casus belli, but the oppression and the killings are real, and absolutely qualifies as terrorism IMO. Plenty of evidence of that, but all discussed already and we are just retreading old ground here.

And while we are flogging dead horses, who is to say that any anti-Russia source is more credible than any pro-Russia source right now? It is irrefutable fact that basically all (English) wikipedia entries concerning the Ukraine conflict are written or edited with a heavily pro-Western bias. Anybody can investigate anything and have it cited on Wikipedia.

An important point that is rarely discussed or considered, Russia stated right at the beginning that one of their goals in Ukraine was to minimise civilian casualties. I am not going to claim that there haven't been civilian casualties, but it's patently obvious that Russia have at least been trying to stick to this. They never cut power or services to population centres until their hand was forced, even when they had ample means to do so. They maintained and protected evacuation corridors (in spite of what our media told us). They absolutely had the means and the capacity to do what Israel is doing in Gaza to every major Ukrainian city right at the beginning, but they didn't do it.

The numbers vary by source, but approximately the same number of civilians have died in the last 20 days in Gaza as in the last 20 months in Ukraine.
 
Putin targets civilians.

Israel targets Hamas but is okay with hitting Palestinian civilians who get in the way. It just so happens that everyone is in the way.

Would you let your enemy live to fight another day and sacrifice your own to save theirs?

Not sure if that's hypocrisy.
I’d be trying really hard not to make enemies in the first place.

Regards Tyrone
 
We've been over this ad nauseum in the original Ukraine thread, and I know you were reading along. "Genocide" is semantics, it depends on how many dead you consider a "Genocide". I agree that Russia are pushing the word as a casus belli, but the oppression and the killings are real, and absolutely qualifies as terrorism IMO. Plenty of evidence of that, but all discussed already and we are just retreading old ground here.

And while we are flogging dead horses, who is to say that any anti-Russia source is more credible than any pro-Russia source right now? It is irrefutable fact that basically all (English) wikipedia entries concerning the Ukraine conflict are written or edited with a heavily pro-Western bias. Anybody can investigate anything and have it cited on Wikipedia.

An important point that is rarely discussed or considered, Russia stated right at the beginning that one of their goals in Ukraine was to minimise civilian casualties. I am not going to claim that there haven't been civilian casualties, but it's patently obvious that Russia have at least been trying to stick to this. They never cut power or services to population centres until their hand was forced, even when they had ample means to do so. They maintained and protected evacuation corridors (in spite of what our media told us). They absolutely had the means and the capacity to do what Israel is doing in Gaza to every major Ukrainian city right at the beginning, but they didn't do it.

The numbers vary by source, but approximately the same number of civilians have died in the last 20 days in Gaza as in the last 20 months in Ukraine.

No actually, I wasn't reading along in that thread. I popped in a time or two, but I generally don't spend much time in political threads. They usually blow up too fast and I don't really care to devote the time to reading 40+ pages of what is usually a bunch of bloviation and argument, frequently with a lot of claims and no legitimate proof posted in many cases.

Civilians are going to get killed when terrorists are hiding amongst them. As I see it, that's the whole reason they hide amongst them. Any state attacking them is likely to have that problem. It sucks, but it is the reality of the situation. I have noticed that the Ukrainian civilian deaths are less. That is more than likely because the Ukrainian soldiers aren't hiding amongst them nor attempting to use them as shields, not because the Russians are doing a better job not targeting them.

And Russian "news" is pretty well known to be tweaked for consumption. Like all the recent guys who have fallen out windows or had mystery heart attacks. Or magical plane failures. And plenty more. Sorry, but there's no way I'll take anything they say with more than a grain of salt. They've cried wolf too many times. Though the grain of salt goes for a lot of news these days. I very nearly believe half of what I see and none of what I hear/read with the news.
 
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No actually, I wasn't reading along in that thread. I popped in a time or two, but I generally don't spend much time in political threads. They usually blow up too fast and I don't really care to devote the time to reading 40+ pages of what is usually a bunch of bloviation and argument, frequently with a lot of claims and no legitimate proof posted in many cases.

Fair enough if you weren't reading, my apologies.

However:

That is more than likely because the Ukrainian soldiers aren't hiding amongst them nor attempting to use them as shields, not because the Russians are doing a better job not targeting them.

That is exactly what they were doing.
 
Fair enough if you weren't reading, my apologies.

However:



That is exactly what they were doing.

No need for an apology. I am a bit more inclined these days to have a discussion here now that it is a bit less inflammatory and there are reasonable discussions happening. I don't mind dialogue. I dislike unreasonable arguments and insulting behavior.

Links? I'm cynical, I want to see the source of this information before I will believe claims of that nature. I am prone to believe it with terrorists. Not so much with actual soldiers. I could see soldiers moving into a civilian area and just plain not thinking of evacuating civilians. But not hiding amongst them purposely. If you're fighting in a populated city, there are going to be civilians around. Especially if they think the city won't be attacked. In the Israel/Palestine situation, anyone who thought that was not thinking at all. I could see people in Kyiv thinking they were safe, even if it was misguided. I will do a little more googling to see what I can find.

In any case, it is war fighting. People are going to die. It's unreasonable to expect that soldiers are going to spend more time protecting and transporting civilians than fighting and preparing to fight the enemy. If soldiers moved into the house down the street from you in a wartime situation, don't you think you'd be aware of it? Would you stay in your home or relocate? I know I wouldn't stick around, unless I was planning on joining the fight.
 
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