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hardfacing customised cutting tool edge

behnod

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Hi everyone.
Currently In a large steel manufacturing company they use customized welded HSS cutting tool for machining roll mills for manufacturing wide flange beam hot rolling roller.
They use 1.3355 (S200) steel sheet that is welded to steel body and cut using wire cut machine to desired form for finish machining the form. the profile of the cutter sometimes is so large about 200*200mm and the thickness of HSS they use is 15mm.(the diameter of roller is 2meter and the cutting speed is about 7-10m/min)
now they asked me about replacing the cutting tool material . i suggested them replacing HSS with carbide plate that can be brazed and cut with wirecut but they told carbide has not the desired toughness and will chip at edges easily .
now I'm thinking of hardfacing the tool edge (complete profile shape) with hardfacing materials like stellite family , deloro family or even abrasion resistance electrode( like E10-UM-65-GZ , etc. )then grind the face and wire cut to the shape . ( the depth of the weldment would be 2-3mm)
do you think it would be an optimal method for making cutting tool . if so what material you suggest for harfacing alloy .
Any help would be really appreciated .
 

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I can't answer the question about choice of hardfacing alloy.
But if the objection to the current way of doing things is simply that too much tool steel is required, have the tool steel cut to follow the profile 25-50mm wide, and make up the rest of the "tool blade" with the same material used for the body/shank. If the tool steel is "nested" when it's cut, they will get several tools from the tool steel that currently makes one tool.
If the objection is that the tool steel wears too quickly, then you will need another material, yes.
 
I can't answer the question about choice of hardfacing alloy.
But if the objection to the current way of doing things is simply that too much tool steel is required, have the tool steel cut to follow the profile 25-50mm wide, and make up the rest of the "tool blade" with the same material used for the body/shank. If the tool steel is "nested" when it's cut, they will get several tools from the tool steel that currently makes one tool.
If the objection is that the tool steel wears too quickly, then you will need another material, yes.
You are right but the main problem they have is the material itself .
The rollers are made from H13 steel . the Tool cant withstand one complete roller finished profile machining and they need to recut the tool profile within the job.
 
High Speed Steel is available in welding fillers, I know for both arc and tig processes. I don't know if its available for wire welding. Check with Crown Alloys in Madison Heights, MI, or Eureka Welding Alloys, also in Madison Heights.
 
High Speed Steel is available in welding fillers, I know for both arc and tig processes. I don't know if its available for wire welding. Check with Crown Alloys in Madison Heights, MI, or Eureka Welding Alloys, also in Madison Heights.
I've heard about Stellite advantageous over HSS tool steels in abrasion resistance, toughness and hardness retainance in high temperatures and want to migrate to hardfacing alloys. do you have any experience in making cutting tools with hardfacing alloys ?
 
Before choosing another cutting edge material, you would have to know what is causing the HSS to fail in the current setup. If it's chipping than carbide won't work.
If failure comes by abrasion than you have a few options.


Stellite is great at high temperatures with holding HSS like edges, but doesn't compare well to carbide for wear resistance at any temperature.
 
There are many different stellites. Stellite 6 is a common hard facing alloy for chemical and abrasion resistance at elevated temperature. It is not the same stellite that is used for cutting tools. Yes, I have made and used tools with welded edges. It was common at one time to reweld large end mills to original diameter. This was before cutter comp was available on NC machines. I'm not really that old, but the process we used was.

I believe Crown HSS welding alloys are M2.
 
Before choosing another cutting edge material, you would have to know what is causing the HSS to fail in the current setup. If it's chipping than carbide won't work.
If failure comes by abrasion than you have a few options.


Stellite is great at high temperatures with holding HSS like edges, but doesn't compare well to carbide for wear resistance at any temperature.
the main issue is abrasion failure . I'm looking for a material beyond HSS and behind carbide . tougher than carbide and harder than hss :stirthepot:
 
Thank you for uploading the catalogues . but the problem is that all the profiles are unique. there are at least 500 types of unique cutting tool profiles there for finish cut . sometimes the profile looks like Lombard street 😄 . and even worse than that they don't have any cnc machines but many manual giant lathes . they have thought for HERKILES cnc machines but it will cost them millions of dollars to replace😁.
 
More about the operation and part tolerances might be helpful.
HSS, stellites, CPM, diamond, and carbide will all dull or chip away or create a wear land so to lose cutting efficiency.
Common practice is to find the best tool material, use it until the wear land makes less efficient cutting, and then remove the wear land with resharpening.
The most casual option with not knowing anything about the operation would be to use the cutter to about a .010 wear-land, and then grind .015 off the profile Peripheral edge.

With different part sizes one might grind a large cutter to become too small, and the grind it to be the requirement for the next smaller part

Another option might be using a smaller cutter and having a machine that would guide the cutter to male the form.

The cutter in the photo might be resharpened on a $300K 5-axis Tc grinder or on a $2K Cincinnati manual Tc (or the like).

Another option might be to have a rougher cutter that uses less expensive catalog cutters / blades to be rougher for the form/shape.

seems that you missed stating your location
 
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Thank you for uploading the catalogues . but the problem is that all the profiles are unique. there are at least 500 types of unique cutting tool profiles there for finish cut . sometimes the profile looks like Lombard street 😄 . and even worse than that they don't have any cnc machines but many manual giant lathes . they have thought for HERKILES cnc machines but it will cost them millions of dollars to replace😁.
Did you actually CONTACT someone at greenleaf ?
 
QT Op: there are at least 500 types of unique cutting tool profiles there for the finish cut .

Not at all uncommon for a major shop to have 500 different cutters.
The cutter in photo #1 looks like about 13" x .030 to grind to sharp.. not that big of a job to grind.
Slice the angles off the protractor, and fit the radius to a gauge or template, or just swing it like a radius of a pivot point.. I could do that on my smallest grinder, a B600 KoLee.

If the cutters are +-.001 a simple manual profile grinder attachment would fill that need.
 
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Coming from an age before TC was universally available in '' backstreet hole in the wall job shops'' (where I often worked) I'd be in the stellite camp, as I've used it for machining many ''too hard for HSS'' jobs, .......and it is a lot tougher than TC.
 
Coming from an age before TC was universally available in '' backstreet hole in the wall job shops'' (where I often worked) I'd be in the stellite camp, as I've used it for machining many ''too hard for HSS'' jobs, .......and it is a lot tougher than TC.
Thanks Limy.
Could you please tell me more about stellite. there are many grades availablle in the market . what grade would you suggest to use as a cutting tool hardfacing material?
 








 
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