Hardinge HC Vertical cut off attachment

[4thgen]

Hello all! First time posting.

I have a Hardinge Chucker lathe (not sure specific vintage or model since I can't find a SN#), the lathe is used for brass and nickel for trumpet repair work. I don't know a lot about this lathe and the manual I have for it is not correct.

One of the attachments that came with it is a vertical cut off tool that mounts on the headstock. The one I have is marked (model 7). When I line up the top mounting hole it looks offset (see pic) like it is the wrong size. Looking on eBay I have seen a couple for sale with the "model 7" marking claiming they fit the "HC".

Does anyone know how these mount up? Does the "model 7" fit the HC models? Am I possibly missing an adapter piece?

Any information would be appreciated!

 

[Rob F.]

I am pretty sure that is also the front bearing retainer, so you have to remove the existing one first.

 

[FredC]

My Hardinge catalog on page 164 shows a model VCHC which I think is the correct model number for an HC. I would have guessed you pull 3 of the bearing retainer screws and the cutoff slide fits over the bearing retainer. I think the spindle labyrinth is over the retainer. If so pulling the retainer would involve pulling the spindle or getting that labyrinth off. I have been wrong before.

Perhaps the model 7 fits the smaller turret lathe.

If you cannot make it fit, there are other solutions involving mounting a cut off holder on the turret.

 

[Rob F.]

I just saw this old post, it seems to imply the one for HC machine is not the same as Model &, as he wants to trade them....

Fs: Hardinge vertical cutoff slide hc

For Sale a nice Hardinge Model HC Vertical Cutoff Slide. Very Nice condition, no breaks or repairs. Just needs to be mounted on your machine and put in a blade to add that extra operation. I'll take 425.00 and I'll pay the postage (lower 48) or trade for equally nice Model 7 for a DV59. Comes...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[4thgen]

My Hardinge catalog on page 164 shows a model VCHC which I think is the correct model number for an HC. I would have guessed you pull 3 of the bearing retainer screws and the cutoff slide fits over the bearing retainer. I think the spindle labyrinth is over the retainer. If so pulling the retainer would involve pulling the spindle or getting that labyrinth off. I have been wrong before.

Perhaps the model 7 fits the smaller turret lathe.

If you cannot make it fit, there are other solutions involving mounting a cut off holder on the turr

My Hardinge catalog on page 164 shows a model VCHC which I think is the correct model number for an HC. I would have guessed you pull 3 of the bearing retainer screws and the cutoff slide fits over the bearing retainer. I think the spindle labyrinth is over the retainer. If so pulling the retainer would involve pulling the spindle or getting that labyrinth off. I have been wrong before.

Perhaps the model 7 fits the smaller turret lathe.

If you cannot make it fit, there are other solutions involving mounting a cut off holder on the turret.

My Hardinge catalog on page 164 shows a model VCHC which I think is the correct model number for an HC. I would have guessed you pull 3 of the bearing retainer screws and the cutoff slide fits over the bearing retainer. I think the spindle labyrinth is over the retainer. If so pulling the retainer would involve pulling the spindle or getting that labyrinth off. I have been wrong before.

Perhaps the model 7 fits the smaller turret lathe.

If you cannot make it fit, there are other solutions involving mounting a cut off holder on the turret.

I'm not sure what a labyrinth is but I'm pretty sure 3 screws come out and the cut off gets mounted over that retainer with 3 longer screws. I think this just might be too small for the hc because of the mounting holes just don't line up.

 

[FredC]

I just saw this old post, it seems to imply the one for HC machine is not the same as Model &, as he wants to trade them....

Fs: Hardinge vertical cutoff slide hc

For Sale a nice Hardinge Model HC Vertical Cutoff Slide. Very Nice condition, no breaks or repairs. Just needs to be mounted on your machine and put in a blade to add that extra operation. I'll take 425.00 and I'll pay the postage (lower 48) or trade for equally nice Model 7 for a DV59. Comes...

www.practicalmachinist.com

I found this older post that indicates the same:

WTB Hardinge Model 7 Vertical Cutoff Slide Blade Mounting Plate

I am looking for the blade mounding plate for the Model 7 vertical cutoff slide for a Hardinge DSM 59 lathe. This is the plate that mounts the blade to the slide mechanism. Can anybody help, please?

www.practicalmachinist.com

I just checked my HLV-H which has the same bearing retainer as the HC and an older DSM59 machine and there is about 1 inch difference in the bearing retainer diameter between the 2 machines. A cut off slide that fits one will not fit the other.
The new model number for the vertical cutoff for the DSM is VCDV. The model 7 maybe an old number that caused confusion if both the HC and DSM machines used the same model 7 number. The ID of your slide should be about 5.5 inches if it is for an HC. You will need to remove the tool holder to get access to the top screw to mount it.

 

[Rob F.]

I was looking for one for my HC once and seem to remember seeing that the ring with 6 bolts comes off and the slide with 3 takes its place, using only 3 bolts. Bearing retainer may not have been the correct term in my last post.
Can you get the 6 bolts out and see what it looks like on the back side?

 

[4thgen]

I just saw this old post, it seems to imply the one for HC machine is not the same as Model &, as he wants to trade them....

Fs: Hardinge vertical cutoff slide hc

For Sale a nice Hardinge Model HC Vertical Cutoff Slide. Very Nice condition, no breaks or repairs. Just needs to be mounted on your machine and put in a blade to add that extra operation. I'll take 425.00 and I'll pay the postage (lower 48) or trade for equally nice Model 7 for a DV59. Comes...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Thanks for finding that! I think I just have the wrong one. I just wanted to use it since I have never tried it, for now I will have to find one that mounts on the turret. I currently have a cut off tool but I need a longer cut off depth for some work next week.

 

[FredC]

I'm not sure what a labyrinth is but I'm pretty sure 3 screws come out and the cut off gets mounted over that retainer with 3 longer screws. I think this just might be too small for the hc because of the mounting holes just don't line up.

Fairly certain your slide fits the smaller machine.

 

[Rob F.]

Looking at your pics what is the part in the front left corner of the chip tray? Maybe that is the part I am thinking of that is supposed to come off to mount the slide? My HC does not have that part...
Also pretty sure the cut off slide itself is the same and the back mount is different per machine. So if you find the correct HC mount with no slide the one you have should fit on it. Double check to be sure though.

 

[4thgen]

I was looking for one for my HC once and seem to remember seeing that the ring with 6 bolts comes off and the slide with 3 takes its place, using only 3 bolts. Bearing retainer may not have been the correct term in my last post.
Can you get the 6 bolts out and see what it looks like on the back side?

I don't know a lot about these machines and I rely on it pretty regularly so I have not taken the six screws out to see what is behind. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/417/28566.pdf I found these instructions.

 

[FredC]

Empire made a cut off attachment that would fit on the HC turret and cut off 1 1/6 material. I had a custom one built for my Omniturns that with a 1/2 center height. The off the shelf Empire tool was for the 3/8 center height. Not sure what its part number is.

 

[in2glamisgirl]

I had the same problem years ago, made an adaptor ring to use the same smaller cut-off slide on a Hardinge Chucker.

 

[4thgen]

Looking at your pics what is the part in the front left corner of the chip tray? Maybe that is the part I am thinking of that is supposed to come off to mount the slide? My HC does not have that part...
I believe it is just a guard, it just slips on.

 

[FredC]

If I am correct about that labyrinth seal, you do not want to take all 6 screws out. You will risk getting chips in the spindle bearing. I looked at the bearing retainer on my UM mill and it has the same style retainer I think is on the HC. I made a new one for the mill as the original had been broken (I bought it as a basket case).

 

[4thgen]

I found this older post that indicates the same:

WTB Hardinge Model 7 Vertical Cutoff Slide Blade Mounting Plate

I am looking for the blade mounding plate for the Model 7 vertical cutoff slide for a Hardinge DSM 59 lathe. This is the plate that mounts the blade to the slide mechanism. Can anybody help, please?

www.practicalmachinist.com

I just checked my HLV-H which has the same bearing retainer as the HC and an older DSM59 machine and there is about 1 inch difference in the bearing retainer diameter between the 2 machines. A cut off slide that fits one will not fit the other.
The new model number for the vertical cutoff for the DSM is VCDV. The model 7 maybe an old number that caused confusion if both the HC and DSM machines used the same model 7 number. The ID of your slide should be about 5.5 inches if it is for an HC. You will need to remove the tool holder to get access to the top screw to mount it.

I thing that info confirms it is too small.

 

[4thgen]

I had the same problem years ago, made an adaptor ring to use the same smaller cut-off slide on a Hardinge Chucker.

do you have any pictures of that?

 

[Rob F.]

OK I see now that must be what I read about that comes off to put the slide on.

 

[in2glamisgirl]

do you have any pictures of that?

Lathe is long gone, it was just an aluminum ring with 3 counterbored holes to mount the ring to the existing front bearing retainer holes (longer cap screws) and 3 tapped holes for the cut off slide to mount.

 

[L Vanice]

I know of four variations in the spindle-mounted vertical cutoff. They all mount over the existing bearing retainer, requiring three longer screws, and all use an Empire P3N blade. The model VCHC or HC fits the chuckers, HLV-H and TFB-H. The model VCDV or 7 fits the DV59, DSM59 or HSL. The model VCBS or B fits the VBS. The model B is about the same as the model 7, but comes with a spacer to go between the bearing retainer and the inside of the VC to move the blade away from the headstock to clear the longer BS spindle and collet nut. I also have one marked model 6 that is the same as the model 7 except the screw holes line up with the earlier TR and ESM lathes. The model 6 might also fit the TL. I have never seen models 1 through 5.

Larry