Hardinge vs. Clone Quality

[wehnelt]

I'm considering buying a used HLV-H, a rebuilt one, or a clone. Of the clones, there seem to be two -- one by Sharp and one by Cyclematic. It seems that Babin, South bend, and Eisen sell the Cyclematic, and I've not found any rebadges of the Sharp. How would you compare these two clones, and how would you compare the clones to, let's say, a brand new HLV-H? What am I actually giving up with the clones, besides resale value and the name? They seem to be of extremely high quality, but all these things have deficiencies and I'm curious what they are just so I understand what I'm getting into.

 

[Tom]

Go with Babin they rework the clone (Cyclematic I believe) to be much closer to the original HLV-H specifications.

 

[FredC]

If the choice was between a new clone and a rebuilt HLV-H, Babin is a person known on this forum as being reputable. He would be the source for the last word on the subject as to which is best.

 

[Chips Everywhere]

Hands down as other have said, Babin is the way to go for rebuilt or as new rebuilt Hardinge lathes.

But before you proceed ask yourself this, do you really need a HLV-H? There are lots of good lathes out there that can do 95% of what a HLV-H does.

I own a few HLV-H and they definitely are nice to operate and very well made, but they do have their down sides, doing work between centers sucks because of the tailstock design and the amount of you need to extend the quill out to get to the end of the shaft. They don’t have the power to take a decent cut, so if you are removing a good amount of material they take a while. There are other downsides I can’t think of.

That being said, for the small parts I use them for, they are truly great machines and can’t think of a better lathe.

If this was to be my only general purpose lathe, I would look at another lathe.

 

[jim rozen]

Has a limited spindle bore. My SB 10L is 1.375 ID, the HLVH is limited by the OD of a 5C collet.

 

[L Vanice]

Has a limited spindle bore. My SB 10L is 1.375 ID, the HLVH is limited by the OD of a 5C collet.

Spindle bore is 1.250 inch and is further reduced by the collet key, which can be removed, but is not something you would enjoy doing. That capacity is if you are trying to hold long bars in a jaw chuck. Max long bar you can hold in a 5C is 1.063 inch. You do not buy an HLV-H for making big parts or taking big cuts. Turning the front end of a chuck adapter to fit a chuck is the biggest work I ever do on a Hardinge. Hardinge lathes are a nice step up from a watch lathe, but I like my Levin 10 mm for the really little stuff.

Larry

 

[L Vanice]

I just became aware tonight that Grizzly is selling a South Bend branded "SUPER PRECISION DIGITAL THREADING COLLET LATHE" AKA HLV-H clone for only about $40,000. If Hardinge super precision is not good enough, you can buy a lathe "Built to true South Bend high-precision industrial standards." Somewhere in Asia, I suppose.

Super Precision Digital Threading Collet Lathe

This South Bend® lathe features a super precision digital threading control, which replaces the traditional threading gearbox with a microprocessor-controlled, servo-driven lead-screw. Simply type in the desired thread pitch on the numeric pad of the touchscreen LCD panel and start the threading...

southbendtools.com

Larry

 

[MilGunsmith]

If you get a Babin clone or rebuild, they offer the digital threading option. I added it to my HLV-BK. Definitely worth the money.

 

[EmGo]

If Hardinge super precision is not good enough, you can buy a lathe "Built to true South Bend high-precision industrial standards."

Seems like for once the advertising is honest. I like South Bend fine but high-precision industrial standards is not the first thing that comes to mind

 

[Peter from Holland]

Feeler and Alex Tech are other Taiwanees clones
It was my understanding that all these were fabricated at the same place But branded differently
The manuals are a exact copy at least

Peter

 

[MCritchley]

If you have a bit of time you can find a very good used Hardinge for 15 to 30k. If the machine was not abused it will do what you need. I’d rather have used Hardinge than a new copy.
I brought a really nice mid 80’s HLV-H for 16k two years ago as my daily user. I can hold tenths and it performs perfectly. Used machines can also have a set of collets and perhaps tooling that you won’t need to buy.

 

[jim rozen]

I've run an HLVH a work, and own a 10L at home. If somebody held a gun to my head and said 'only one' then the choice would be the 10L.

 

[Peter from Holland]

What is bad about the HLV is the carriage
Flimsy gears Not hardened with unhardened shafts running in needle cups
And coolant can enter the carriage somehow

Peter

 

[rons]

For the price of this:

Sharp Industries Precision Toolroom Lathe 11” x 18” Capacity - 1118H

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.

www.penntoolco.com

might as well look into a digital threading option.

 

[MCritchley]

For the price of this:

Sharp Industries Precision Toolroom Lathe 11” x 18” Capacity - 1118H

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.

www.penntoolco.com

might as well look into a digital threading option.

Sharp's quality slips every year, that lathe would be a klunker in a few years.

 

[jccaclimber]

Sharp's quality slips every year, that lathe would be a klunker in a few years.

Anything specific? I’m looking at a Sharp currently, though I don’t know the year of manufacture. It feels better than the only HLV-h I’ve used, but that machine had a hard past life.

 

[MCritchley]

Sloppy bearing fits, cosmetic scraping, and soft parts. The variable speed drive will most likely be rattling after a few years of use. There is no comparison to an un worn HLVH.

 

[Peroni]

Anything specific? I’m looking at a Sharp currently, though I don’t know the year of manufacture. It feels better than the only HLV-h I’ve used, but that machine had a hard past life.

We have a Sharp here at my day job, purchased new about 4yrs ago. It sucks, complete garbage compared to the original machine it was copied from. Major stick slip in all slides, most of the plastic handles have fallen apart and there have been sporadic problems with the drive electronics. Save your money for a refurbished version of the real thing.

 

[jccaclimber]

So if a couple decade old one in great shape falls into my hands tooled maybe, but if not stay away. Good to know.
It's interesting, half the posts I find online about those say they are great, and no difference from the real thing. Others have said as above that they hated them. Is this a case where there was a large shift in quality at some point, or are some people just a lot less picky?
I am a bit confused as to the case for a brand new Sharp as you're in Babin rebuild territory at that point.