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Help me decide: Speedio S5/700 or Doosan DNM4500

It really depends on what you are making. I really like 30 tapers but I also like to be able to clamp plates to the table AND be able to reach them with tools. Keep in mind there is way more to cycle times than tool changes, and the Brother is really fast at all those other aspects.

I like to hold +/- .0002" and have no idea why this is difficult on a Brother. Granted holding those tolerances on curvy paths will slow it to a crawl, it is the one thing that I have found that my Brother really sucks at.

I would suggest that if at all possible get a rotating table. My R650 doubled the parts I make a day even though total cycle times, including part swaps, only improved by 10-40%. Having the machine swap parts while your doing something else is a godsend for improving productivity/profitability$$$
 
Yeah, TSC pump is another 7k or so. I do a lot of drilling tapping M3 holes, which would seems a little ridiculous on a big machine, but whatever. Acc/dec on the DNM was 2 seconds from 0-12k. I'm sure that adds up too. I need to get some pallets and try to get more density. I'm not a big fan of one piece flow, don't care how fast tool changes are.

BTW, the machines I'm looking at still say Doosan. Maybe inventory hasn't caught up to the name change yet.
 
Choice depends on what direction you believe your operation is going and what your parts production will be.

For my shop, I run 10 jobs on my 30 taper to every 1 on my 40 taper. If I were to add capacity, it would be another 30 taper cause it fits more of what I do, expect to do, and it’s faster.
 
Have you looked at the SVMs? The DN guy was showing them to me and they look pretty nice. Comes with through spindle coolant.
 
SVM was 2 months lead time. I need something soon. Kinda odd machine. Optimized for die cast AL but a 25hp spindle??
 
Hunh ? Can you explain ? In my geometrically-challenged mind, if you can fit 5 vises or fixtures on a 24" table, you can fit 6 on a 30. Given that the other dimension is also larger, if your holding arrangements are reorganized, good chance you can get in even more. But at the very least, you get 5/4 as much table space for loading.

That also means your toolchanges and so on are spread over 5/4 as many parts, which is also a good thing. This should factor in to calculations about "this one changes tools in 2 seconds, this one takes 3" because if that change is spread over more parts, the speed of the change is less important.

I’n my mind if you have 5-6 vices on a table you’re running small parts that could be done faster on an 30 taper machine. A bunch of money was spent on tooling and everything is more complicated. Instead of spending money on tooling I’d rather spend it on the machine and buy a pallet changer… a fast one.

So why not run 2 vices on something like an R450, R650 or Kitamura Spark Charger. The brothers chip to chip time with a pallet change is faster than most 40 taper machines regular chip to chip. So even if you have 5 times less tool changes it’s all lost on the load/unload. When you need machinable jaws or want pneumatic actuated vices you need 5 of them instead of 2. When there’s a quality issue there’s 5 parts vs 2… don’t worry about time away from the machine… that’s what operators are for.
 
In my mind if you have 5-6 vices on a table you’re running small parts that could be done faster on an 30 taper machine.

Possibly ... but you're adding more operator attention per part ... so might be better, might be worse.

You'd have to calculate it carefully, I guess depends on how you look at labor. I don't mind scurrying when I have to but wouldn't want to do it as a steady diet. Maybe you can find people who don't mind that. And don't mind earning less money for running their ass off than they can get at Burger King for handing a bag out the window :(
 
Possibly ... but you're adding more operator attention per part ... so might be better, might be worse.

You'd have to calculate it carefully, I guess depends on how you look at labor. I don't mind scurrying when I have to but wouldn't want to do it as a steady diet. Maybe you can find people who don't mind that. And don't mind earning less money for running their ass off than they can get at Burger King for handing a bag out the window :(

Yup, the 30 taper probably would be slightly faster. The short run time sounds fantastic until you realize nobody wants to run it lol.

Much nicer to change bunch of parts every 20+mins or so then stand in front of a speedio continuously.
 
I'm currently asking my Yamazen guy to stop breaking my balls on the S500 with 28 tools and dual contact. If I can get that price down near the DNM4500, I might stay Speedio. The stuff I make has grown with what machines I have. I started in an attic with a sherline mill. That's a lot of machine in the DNM for an S500 price, and the Ellison guy seems pretty eager to steal the sale. I appreciate the input. Waiting on occupancy permit, but hope to pull trigger in a few days.

What are the prices for each machine? I wish more machine tool companies would share MSRP data without the "contact us for a quote" B.S.
 
Yup, the 30 taper probably would be slightly faster. The short run time sounds fantastic until you realize nobody wants to run it lol.

Much nicer to change bunch of parts every 20+mins or so then stand in front of a speedio continuously.
While you are swapping parts on your big table what is the spindle doing? On my R650 it is busy making parts so that I am usually racing it so when it's done the tables swap as it's changing tools and repositioning. So far I haven't made any parts that I had time to run a second machine, so no time wasted walking around between different machines, using very little air and 4-7 amps of electricity. Sure I am tied to the machine but I can do as much work in less than 2 weeks as your big 40 taper will do in a month IF you are right there to swap parts WHEN it is ready. From experience I know this isn't going to happen so you better add the weekends to your month to make up for it, and some OT to cover the extra electricity your compressor and big mill are using.
 
People worry about loading the table. I have both standard and rotating tables. The R series is better, as someone else said on here it's a license to print money. I wish I had bought them long ago. Keeping the machine fed is a first world problem. If you have the work, find a way to get an R machine. Remember that even with only 450mm or 650mm, you have 2 tables that size. If you do parts with multiple op's, you'll love the R machine. I have 2 R machines, and an S700 and S500. They are all awesome. If you want reliability and an easy life, get the Brother.
Even the base model R450 is a fantastic machine.
 
Well, I decided on an S500Xd1. Dual contact, 16k, 28 tools. The BBT should give me some room to grown in the milling department. I enjoyed the extra power of the base model 10k spindle, but the 16k should be helpful on smaller stuff. I ran out of budget with these options, so the extra table width will have to wait till next time. I did manage to get a spindle override knob thrown in (thanks Andy). This machine ended up costing a little more than the DNM4500. My main reasons in the decicsion are: time to get back running, less adventure (had enough after the fire, don't really want to explore the world of post processors), speed, and ability to move again (smaller being easier to move and find a new home for it, height on DNM is 10' in addition to being heavy). I would enjoy learning a bigger machine, but the Speedio makes more sense with where I'm at. Thanks for the input.
 
You can set something up for around $500 that would work, if money is more important.
Are you talking about TSC pump for $500? What pump is that? The machine is set up for TSC. I wonder if you can set that up for thru air for steel as well. I know some guys use that for spindle gripper air.
 
I like to hold +/- .0002" and have no idea why this is difficult on a Brother.
It's because they aren't super accurate, apparently.

Speedio specs:

"Accuracy of bidirectional axis positioning (ISO230-2:1988) [mm (inch)]: 0.006 - 0.020 (0.00024 - 0.00079)
"Repeatability of bidirectional axis positioning (ISO230-2:2014) [mm (inch)] Less than 0.004 (0.00016)
 








 
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