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Help me spend $75k for my dream machine shop...

I’ve heard of the Takisawa... I will keep a keen eye peeled for both of these...

Cheers!

Now yer gettin' it. Your needs? Any of over a DOZEN "decent lathes" can fit. More like TWO dozen.

Make that a list. Learn what you can about them. Revise it. Proritize it.

Then you have a classical "Short list". Start a regular scouting exercise. One already "on your list" turns up? "Condition, condition, condition."

And you adapt to a decent lathe. AND NOT a brand-new "LSO".

Bit of wear? Big F******g Deal. It's a competent machine tool you can still trust to do its job.

You have to learn YOUR part, regardless.

Outta here... other fish to electrocute...
 
Ha Ha, the termite slipped back full bore into his fake "old drunk in the barn talk"!
He didnt have that when he first showed up here, bugs man thinks it makes him more believable, ynuck ynuck!
So, the decent thing to do is help him be a real Dashing Dork, by chipping in, and buy this troll a Dashin Prince!
 
I would be happy to, but that is way off topic for this forum. I’m in the middle of a large remodelling project at the moment and since I’m doing about 98% of the work, spare time is as easy to find as English clotted cream in the dairy aisle.

I really need to stay focused on getting my metal shop sorted and that’s taking any spare time I have currently.

Cheers!

I) I don't think it's really off topic - I mean, people were showing off pictures of their cars here, and I don't think this place has someone so dickish to look at a picture of a woodworkers' shop and some cool art and utility products done on one, and complain to moderation.


II) As a reply to your OP... I think I'm a little qualified to speak as my own formal training originally included a one-day workshop course at uni, and a summer job that same summer, which just isn't much. (although I learned to wind small transformers on a lathe there!)

I think you're thinking way too big in the direction of beginning. PM isn't a bad brand for budget equipment - incidentally I've just found out thanks to Blondihacks' videos that the mill and lathe I have at work, by the "German" brand Optimum is basically Precision Matthews painted different and according to their site, produced in mainland China rather than Taiwan.

In fact, I've got the same mill as her without DRO and power feeds (and also, MT2 taper rather than R8, the latter just isn't a thing in Europe) ,and a lathe that's a cheaper model, but the point is, you can (and we in fact do) make a whole lot of, especially smaller things with them (I work at a government-run lab as a technician so getting budget for new equipment is... challenging) - and throughout your posts, you mention you want to basically make utility items (like plugs and bolts for your cars) rather than tools, which is where tolerances get REALLY tight.

I'd suggest getting something along the lines of her kit - just doing math in my head (and using my country's prices) it would set you back something like 5k, with maybe a couple k more to kit them out with accessories, but

a) they won't take up a lot of space in your garage, to the point of probably sitting quietly by your woodturning studio.

b) you'll be able to get a lot of things done immediately and see how well things go,

c) you can use them for some repairs and accessories for your woodworking stuff, and also, they'll be a great help if you do decide to find an old, well-made machine to restore like people keep advising you to
d) they'll help you realize what your needs are if you *do* decide to go bigger.

e) Because of the financial tune set by the original equipment, you won't have to think twice about getting an accessory you realize you need in your life.

It's a lot like with cars - your first car at 16 being a Porsche might sound cool, but it's a disaster about to happen.


Also, asides from all the cool youtube channels that exist these days, I'd like to draw your attention to Doug Briney's The Home Machinist Handbook - it's got comprehensive information on a LOT of stuff you might have missed by not having a formal education, which makes it a good startoff point, and it includes some sample projects not only for fun things but also things that will make your life easier when doing more work.


Either way, I wish you a lot of luck and not too many broken endmills!
 
I have two companies that can supply you. machinery-central.com and toolingemporium.com, we have mills and lathes manual and CNC. Used equipment is selling great and we get new inventory everyday. The thing you want to worry about is parts and the Taiwanese machines have two categories ones that you can get parts for and the ones you can't. The importers change and the names change so a good looking new machine may be antiquated in a years time. We buy machines that we know we can get parts for if needed. Check out our inventory and will be glad to work you up a package deal.

John Kempf
(502)419-9170
 
The thing you want to worry about is parts

why? Are you busting castings? I haven't encountered a part that wasn't either readily available commercially or couldn't be made. Somewhat different if its a CNC and the controller is old and there's no support docs (Grrrrr mitsubishi :( ) ...but what do you expect to go wrong with a manual machine that can't be fixed? (not saying there cant be any, but there hasn't been for me, exception being the bs euromill spindle designs)
 
I have two companies that can supply you. machinery-central.com and toolingemporium.com, we have mills and lathes manual and CNC. Used equipment is selling great and we get new inventory everyday. The thing you want to worry about is parts and the Taiwanese machines have two categories ones that you can get parts for and the ones you can't. The importers change and the names change so a good looking new machine may be antiquated in a years time. We buy machines that we know we can get parts for if needed. Check out our inventory and will be glad to work you up a package deal.

John Kempf
(502)419-9170

This is exactly what I'm looking for, can we contact the PM?
 
Thanks for the heads up... I know very little about Grizzly. It’s hit or miss finding the right used equipment. I’m trying to find German manufactured lathes and mills (like Weiler and FPS) currently. I’m also sending enquiries about new machines (or factory refurbished for FPS), since finding the right used machinery is none too easy.

Cheers!

For European used machines, see Machineseeker - 200.000 new and used machines online

Do a search for Weiler and another search for Deckel and you'll get lots of hits. Most of these machines will be in Europe, but getting stuff from Europe can be done with a little effort. This search even found a Weiler in New York: ▷ Used Weiler for sale - Machineseeker
This search turned up a bunch of Deckel machines: ▷ Used Deckel for sale - Machineseeker
 
Thanks for the links!

For European used machines, see Machineseeker - 200.000 new and used machines online

Do a search for Weiler and another search for Deckel and you'll get lots of hits. Most of these machines will be in Europe, but getting stuff from Europe can be done with a little effort. This search even found a Weiler in New York: ▷ Used Weiler for sale - Machineseeker
This search turned up a bunch of Deckel machines: ▷ Used Deckel for sale - Machineseeker

Thanks for the links to the German equipment... I will check them out. The search for equipment is as fun as it is exhausting, but it will be worth the wait.

Take care and best wishes!

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the links to the German equipment... I will check them out. The search for equipment is as fun as it is exhausting, but it will be worth the wait.

Take care and best wishes!

Cheers!

If you do go with Deckel mill, keep in mind that the tool holding is all European or Deckel standard depending on how old/new the machine is, and therefore you'll need to aquire this mostly from Europe. Generally not difficult, but tends to be more expensive than US tooling. Tooling and accessories will be your next adventure after choosing your machines....that's where things can be quite expensive. Also, there is an excellent sub-forum dedicated to Deckel machines on this site with very knowledgeable folks who can provide guidance including folks in Europe who are very familiar with the market for used machines and accessories.
 
Thanks for the links to the German equipment... I will check them out. The search for equipment is as fun as it is exhausting, but it will be worth the wait.

Take care and best wishes!

Cheers!

Also, it's taken me more than 3 years to build out my shop, much of that time chasing after machines and accessories.....and I'm still waiting for one more major machine to arrive.
 
I) I don't think it's really off topic - I mean, people were showing off pictures of their cars here, and I don't think this place has someone so dickish to look at a picture of a woodworkers' shop and some cool art and utility products done on one, and complain to moderation.


II) As a reply to your OP... I think I'm a little qualified to speak as my own formal training originally included a one-day workshop course at uni, and a summer job that same summer, which just isn't much. (although I learned to wind small transformers on a lathe there!)

I think you're thinking way too big in the direction of beginning. PM isn't a bad brand for budget equipment - incidentally I've just found out thanks to Blondihacks' videos that the mill and lathe I have at work, by the "German" brand Optimum is basically Precision Matthews painted different and according to their site, produced in mainland China rather than Taiwan.

In fact, I've got the same mill as her without DRO and power feeds (and also, MT2 taper rather than R8, the latter just isn't a thing in Europe) ,and a lathe that's a cheaper model, but the point is, you can (and we in fact do) make a whole lot of, especially smaller things with them (I work at a government-run lab as a technician so getting budget for new equipment is... challenging) - and throughout your posts, you mention you want to basically make utility items (like plugs and bolts for your cars) rather than tools, which is where tolerances get REALLY tight.

I'd suggest getting something along the lines of her kit - just doing math in my head (and using my country's prices) it would set you back something like 5k, with maybe a couple k more to kit them out with accessories, but

a) they won't take up a lot of space in your garage, to the point of probably sitting quietly by your woodturning studio.

b) you'll be able to get a lot of things done immediately and see how well things go,

c) you can use them for some repairs and accessories for your woodworking stuff, and also, they'll be a great help if you do decide to find an old, well-made machine to restore like people keep advising you to
d) they'll help you realize what your needs are if you *do* decide to go bigger.

e) Because of the financial tune set by the original equipment, you won't have to think twice about getting an accessory you realize you need in your life.

It's a lot like with cars - your first car at 16 being a Porsche might sound cool, but it's a disaster about to happen.


Also, asides from all the cool youtube channels that exist these days, I'd like to draw your attention to Doug Briney's The Home Machinist Handbook - it's got comprehensive information on a LOT of stuff you might have missed by not having a formal education, which makes it a good startoff point, and it includes some sample projects not only for fun things but also things that will make your life easier when doing more work.


Either way, I wish you a lot of luck and not too many broken endmills!

I think this post sums up some very good points about a 75 K project. The thing which likely will happen is that one could actually waste a lot of valuable money and never be very satisfied with what you actually ended up with. In this kind of business money goes fast and I have seen many times where someone has money and little actual skill set in regard to the trade. This happens a lot and I just nod my head over all the kinds of things that are done plus the uneeded anguish very often of them doing things a certain way.

One boss wanted to buy a machine a lathe with VDI tooling (he short changed everything and then brought in someone that said they knew the machine who crashed the thing) - the guy knew nothing about that machine) and he did not want to buy a tail stock because he believed he did not need it. After considerable discussion I did understand they never understood what to even bid or how in even utilizing a tailstock as they were not a bad boss they just had no clue. A lot of my life has been spent navigating such stubborn people because when I bothered to really explain my actual experience learned elsewhere they always seemed to fight it.

Fu## that I was done they never thanked me anyway all the times I pulled them out of a rut anyway. Their mindset was very valuable to them to get them to a turning point of growth and they basically got stuck. It happens to many of us it never hurt those guys very badly they still got through. I would take what they refuse to see and keep it to myself-life is too short to get concerned. Because it mostly just got me involved when I really preferred not to be.
 
Thanks for your comments VAE...

Although I mentioned doing some small bits for the F-car, one of my primary areas of interest is making tools. I would like to make them as necessary for my remodelling and some for my metal studio and other needs. I only mentioned a few things in my original post that I would like to make, but there are a plethora of things on my list to turn and mill. :-)

I’m also keen on getting some import tools and making them better and more accurate ala Stefan Gotteswinter. I have experience on a Bridgeport mill and a manual metal lathe from working with my neighbour (retired Navy machinist and master gunsmith) on and off for seven years.

Whilst the prospect of having a wood and metal studio in the same space sounds appealing, if I leave the woodturning studio up, there will not be enough room for any metal equipment. I have a finite amount of space and I can’t build any more, as I’ve got 100% of our allotted hardscape built per our property deed restrictions.

Although I could just coast through my retirement years with my existing professional woodturning studio (that I’ve worked in for more than twenty years), I prefer a new challenge. I’ve wanted a metal studio since I was fourteen years old and so it will be... I will get the training I need, I will buy the tools I need and I will hold myself to the highest standards.

I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions! I would be happy to buy you a pint, or a cuppa if we meet at a manufacturer’s symposium, or an industry related conference. :-)

Cheers!
 
If you do go with Deckel mill, keep in mind that the tool holding is all European or Deckel standard depending on how old/new the machine is, and therefore you'll need to aquire this mostly from Europe. Generally not difficult, but tends to be more expensive than US tooling. Tooling and accessories will be your next adventure after choosing your machines....that's where things can be quite expensive. Also, there is an excellent sub-forum dedicated to Deckel machines on this site with very knowledgeable folks who can provide guidance including folks in Europe who are very familiar with the market for used machines and accessories.

Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers!
 
75K will not go far and I would not put over 10K on any single machine tool shipped and spotted.
Over half the money is going to be in accessories. Benches, plates, mics, DTI's, precision squares. vises, sine plates, angle blocks, gage blocks, thread wires, height gage, toolholders, cutting tools, chucks and collets, decent tool boxes and a full or multiple set of wrenches hammers and the sort, compressed air system,.......
Bob
 
funny thing is you can often get a cnc mill for less than half the price of a conventional (e.g fp4).
 
Although I mentioned doing some small bits for the F-car, one of my primary areas of interest is making tools. I would like to make them as necessary for my remodelling and some for my metal studio and other needs. I only mentioned a few things in my original post that I would like to make, but there are a plethora of things on my list to turn and mill. :-)

Oh, definitely, but I think it's best to start with something reasonably achievable, then work your way up as you pick up skills. While you do seem to have some experience on a mill and a lathe, said experience comes from almost 40 years ago, and sometimes, being sure you remember something and it not quite being so is worse than outright not knowing it (I once found the hard way when I crashed the gear connecting the chuck's axis to the drive feed on a stankoimport lathe :ack2: )


I’m also keen on getting some import tools and making them better and more accurate ala Stefan Gotteswinter. I have experience on a Bridgeport mill and a manual metal lathe from working with my neighbour (retired Navy machinist and master gunsmith) on and off for seven years.

Whilst the prospect of having a wood and metal studio in the same space sounds appealing, if I leave the woodturning studio up, there will not be enough room for any metal equipment. I have a finite amount of space and I can’t build any more, as I’ve got 100% of our allotted hardscape built per our property deed restrictions.

Well... my lathe lives on a former lab desk that's 60" by 30" roughly and the mill is on a taller, welded frame that's 30" by 30" with some space around it - maybe as much as the formerly mentioned desk at most - we have other machinery in the workshop (two Jihokov drill presses, compressor, two sandblasting boxes...) and a big part of it is consumed by storage and some junk that comes handy time to time. You really don't need much space for smaller machines.

Although I could just coast through my retirement years with my existing professional woodturning studio (that I’ve worked in for more than twenty years), I prefer a new challenge. I’ve wanted a metal studio since I was fourteen years old and so it will be... I will get the training I need, I will buy the tools I need and I will hold myself to the highest standards.
And I wish you a lot of luck with that!

Speaking of, that gives rise to another possible way to decide. Go get training at some workshop or school, and if you like one of the machines you'll work on, and it happens to be within your price range, look for the same sort - it will make it easier to slip from one to another.



I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions! I would be happy to buy you a pint, or a cuppa if we meet at a manufacturer’s symposium, or an industry related conference. :-)

Cheers!

Hah! I don't really get sent anywhere, but you know. As we say here in Slovakia, when the Lord gives, even a hoe will fire a round.
 








 
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