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How do you handle tooling cost when quoting for a job

I've got a basic spreadsheet that pretty much covers all the variables I'll see. It's also fairly sloppy still so excuse the useless fluff. That said, I usually pad normal tooling into the hourly rate (notice that that's adjustable on the top right: I usually give more favorable rates to the customers with the better payment terms), buuuuuut I have a separate category for it in case there's something special like that $475 tap mentioned above. I filled it in the field here with $100 just as an example.

As time goes on and my hunches become more accurate I've been using the spreadsheet more for reference, or to gauge what I should set for easy/medium/hard parts in a huge RFQ.

Pretty proud of this tbh. I can use it to either quote a $ amount for setup or cycle, or by time (what I usually do). It divides up the total price by the number of parts so once I enter everything in it's super easy to get those qty 5, 20, and 50 that customers are always poopy about wanting.

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WOW!

That IS the perfect tap, and at half the price for a 4" long plug too!

Are those "hot" tools?
How so cheap?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
My guess is that he was looking at a Pulley Tap?

But it wasn't hard to find just Sp Pt taps in the $400 range either.

Seems like I found a 4" long plug for maybe around $220?
So the sqr would have needed ground down a size and a sqr socket put on it to finish the hole(s)


This one posted above already has the longer shank AND the smaller shank drive, but it's not needed now...
(with the longer shank)
Still wondering if the decimal has been moved?


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
WOW!

That IS the perfect tap, and at half the price for a 4" long plug too!

Are those "hot" tools?
How so cheap?


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Suncoast is reputable. I buy most of my tooling from them. Good stock, decent website (better than most tooling vendors), fast shipping. They are also my go to for ordering Harvey (but oddly they don't sell Helical). You get the order to them by 4 or 5 (don't recall which) and they'll have the factory ship same day. Much better than my local rep, who'll take three days just to get me a quote.

They will also sell you one drill. If you buy less than package quantities the price is a bit higher per unit, but not outrageous. They stock a pretty complete selection of YG-1 and Guhring tools.
 
M30-1.5 tap $475? Feel like I'm missing something here?
It's gone up:


I wasn't going to try to use a hand tap. Wanted something that would machine tap when they came back for fifteen more parts.

Didn't matter. I didn't want to deal with the job at all. Not my specialty, not my thing. My prices were off by a factor of 3-4x. I think they were expecting to "have to fork out" something around $80-100 each. They didn't have any idea what even the raw material was going to run.
 
Definitely looks like a production tap. They would be getting the $50 tap it they complained about price. I get the same thing with fabrication and welding. People have no idea the skill and time things take.
Keeping this in the context and subject of the thread: I'm not sure I can say what kind of work this customer does so lets say they are a tire shop, they only change tires on Ford pickups, they're the only tire shop in a town with a thousand trucks and these lug nuts aren't made anymore.

This is maybe one of their first ten tire changes and they already need four replacement lug nuts. They're potentially going to need thousands of these nuts in the future but, that work isn't guaranteed. The trucks come every day but, they are only promised the ones in their lot right now. How many tires can they change is going to drive how many future tire chagnes they get.

So they went to my friend, who came to me and wanted four lug nuts for the two trucks sitting in their shop, right this minute. I could go at risk to buy tooling, hoping to get future work. Then again, they could decide to buy a couple of machines, put them in the corner of his shop to make these on-demand. Or someone could figure out they could get them made in China and still mark them up. They already have an on-staff manual machinist. Not sure why this was not done by him.

I wasn't going at-risk, to chase future work that wasn't guaranteed, nor was I in the business to make (not a job shop). IMO: they should have invested in their own future and said, okay, we know we're going to need at least 10-20 of these in the next year or so. We should invest in enough parts to bring the costs down and have them on the shelf. That risk needed to be on them, not me. Not my monkeys, not my circus.
 
With no way to gauge an internal thread, opted for a tap I'll never use again: $475.
There are M30x1.5 taps on ebay for $30. I'm sure they cut like shit, but they do exist.

The material choice is puzzling. 4140 in the annealed condition is only marginally stronger than low carbon steel - higher UTS, similar yield. I can't recall making a single part out of 4140 in the last 10 years that wasn't heat treated. It screams garage inventor.
 
There are M30x1.5 taps on ebay for $30. I'm sure they cut like shit, but they do exist.

The material choice is puzzling. 4140 in the annealed condition is only marginally stronger than low carbon steel - higher UTS, similar yield. I can't recall making a single part out of 4140 in the last 10 years that wasn't heat treated. It screams garage inventor.

You'll be shocked to hear it's one of the largest industrial giants on the planet. Big enough that they had their own processes referenced in the drawing notes but, no longer available. It's a 30-40 year old part design and one of those manufacturing specs probably included heat treat.
 
A lot for me depends on the tooling required. My "standard" hourly rate covers normal tooling wear and tear. But if I've got a deep pocket and will be using super long end mills that are probably going to chip whilst getting it dialled in on a low volume part then I'll charge 100% of the tooling costs to the job. If it repeats or if I've got a cutter kicking around from the last job then I'll maybe only add a percentage.

Anything that gets bought specifically for the job gets charged in full regardless of whether I'll use it again. For instance a 15 x D 1" spade drill I bought for a job a couple of months back. Sure I'll probably use it again in my lifetime but it'll likely sit on the shelf for quite a while with the work I typically do. I included 100% of the cost in the quote. If the job repeats or a similar job comes in then I'll probably only include tips in my quote if anything.

Early on I used to take the hit on nice to have tooling. I bought a heap of broaching tools which were quite expensive when I was starting out and didn't have great cash flow. I soon found out that the holders were quite specific in size with limited options on the inserts so I ended up with a rather expensive drawer full of broaching cutters that haven't seen the light of day in a long time. Because I took the hit on these I essentially worked for free on the actual jobs that they were bought for and with the exception of one repeat order (customer supplied drawing had a tolerance mistake so parts were no good) none of them have been used since the original job.

Now I've been going for a few years my theory is that if I haven't needed it so far it doesn't fall into that nice to have category but rather specific to the job.
 








 
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