how to automate my lathe

[Ox]

"Air" spindle bearings?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[CarbideBob]

"Air" spindle bearings?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

This is more the semiconductor or cmm guys world. Light loading.
Air bearing fixtures are common in tool and cutter grind on the workhead side. Spindles not so much but have seen it.
If you need super-super RPM then this or mag lev since any contact bearing will not live.
Carbide likes 800+ SFM in aluminum as a start point. .010 endmill, what does this work out to?

 

[Milling man]

..... and according to the "excellent" tradition, the author asked a question and disappeared

 

[Ox]

..... and according to the "excellent" tradition, the author asked a question and disappeared

And how doo you come to that conclusion?

His profile shows that he was logged in here as recently as late yesterdee afternoon.
You're sure that he hasn't been reading all posts here?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Milling man]

And how doo you come to that conclusion?

His profile shows that he was logged in here as recently as late yesterdee afternoon.
You're sure that he hasn't been reading all posts here?

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[fatstig]

you're wrong

I hope I'm wrong.

you're wrong

 

[Garwood]

you're wrong

Way to participate! Sure proved him wrong!

 

[fatstig]

@Milling man, Sorry, I couldn't resist.

To get back to my question:

@Orange Vice you are right, a robot cell is definitely the best choice. But since I started last year and already have a lease on the Haas lathe, I don't really want to get into more debt. Last summer the work stopped for a while and then the monthly lease is quite a burden.

@Ox, you just mean to make a tray behind the sub-spindle and let the parts fall in there? With the Haas, the sub-spindle is hollow, so that could work. But I'm afraid that the parts will be launched when it starts turning again. I don't have any way to push the part completely out of the sub-spindle, which would mean that one part would be clamped in the chuck and one or maybe two parts would be loose in the spindle, which would then turn (sounds pretty scary to me ).

I've been tinkering in between jobs and almost got something working on the Okuma, will upload a video tomorrow.

Cheers, Peter

 

[DanielG]

you just mean to make a tray behind the sub-spindle and let the parts fall in there? With the Haas, the sub-spindle is hollow, so that could work. But I'm afraid that the parts will be launched when it starts turning again. I don't have any way to push the part completely out of the sub-spindle, which would mean that one part would be clamped in the chuck and one or maybe two parts would be loose in the spindle, which would then turn (sounds pretty scary to me ).

This is going to sound stupid. Who knows, maybe it is, but could you put a close fitting spindle liner in the subspindle and then mount an air gun to the turret. After you turn the second end on the subspindle, push it into the subspindle and then blow it clear through and out the right side.

 

[Orange Vise]

@Orange Vice you are right, a robot cell is definitely the best choice. But since I started last year and already have a lease on the Haas lathe, I don't really want to get into more debt. Last summer the work stopped for a while and then the monthly lease is quite a burden.

Understood.

You could build your own 2 or 3-axis gantry unloader for a few grand using Clearpath servos and an Arduino for point-to-point positioning. Dead simple and quite reliable.

 

[Milling man]

You could build your own 2 or 3-axis gantry unloader for a few grand using Clearpath servos

Or ..... To make a "robot" even cheaper, 2-coordinate, using pneumatic cylinders. Yes - much less versatile, but much cheaper.

 

[fatstig]

@DanielG, that may work.

@Orange Vise , now were talking, that would be great. Just 1 pickup point for material pickup ( magazine style ) and a conveyor belt or slide, drop point for unloading parts. Almost like the Haas APL.
Are there any kind of off the shelf gantry profiles for sale ? of should I cook something up ?


For the current order I have to make is a 8mm od tube, 5mm id, 254mm long made form 316L stainless.
on one end it needs a chamfer, on the otherside 1/16nptf thread.
The outside is centreless ground and needs to be unschratched, so thats the difficult part.

So far I have come up with this setup on the Okuma.

Still needs a lot of fine tuning to make it work as i want it to be.

 

[Orange Vise]

@Orange Vise , now were talking, that would be great. Just 1 pickup point for material pickup ( magazine style ) and a conveyor belt or slide, drop point for unloading parts. Almost like the Haas APL.
Are there any kind of off the shelf gantry profiles for sale ? of should I cook something up ?

We're working on something similar for internal use. If things go well, we'll provide machined parts available for sale and open source everything else like the BOM and the source code.

The APL type system you're describing would be very simple using an Arduino and Clearpath MCPV servos for limited point-to-point positioning, which is all you'd need.

We're also working on a pallet changer for mills using a Beaglebone and Clearpath SCHP servos.

 

[Orange Vise]

Or ..... To make a "robot" even cheaper, 2-coordinate, using pneumatic cylinders. Yes - much less versatile, but much cheaper.

True.

My take on it however is that Clearpaths and linear stages are still way more affordable than any off-the-shelf automation solution currently on the market. What I like most about Clearpaths is their easy integration with Arduinos and not having to fiddle around with prox switches, pressure regulators, and exhaust valves. My future autodoors might be servo driven for this reason.

 

[GiroDyno]

Just got an email from Haas about exactly that, very rudimentary looking combination of servo and pneumatics to make a swing in/out, pick up/drop off "robot"
https://www.haascnc.com/machines/ve...eb01_2023&PID=0002433763&deliveryName=DM18104

I haven't looked much into running servos on Arduino, what is it specifically about the Clearpath motors that make them favorable over anything else?

 

[Garwood]

Just got an email from Haas about exactly that, very rudimentary looking combination of servo and pneumatics to make a swing in/out, pick up/drop off "robot"
https://www.haascnc.com/machines/ve...eb01_2023&PID=0002433763&deliveryName=DM18104

I haven't looked much into running servos on Arduino, what is it specifically about the Clearpath motors that make them favorable over anything else?

They run step and direction signals like steppers. All the stuff for arduinos controlling things is made for steppers, but steppers are a bit dumb to put too much trust into.

Friend of mine is working on something similar, but based on the RPI Pico that supports a user interface and communications better than Arduino does.

Pretty cool what a 50 cent chip can do these days. I've had a $20 Pico based controller with a touchscreen U/I running my shop's air system for the last 6 months.

 

[Orange Vise]

I haven't looked much into running servos on Arduino, what is it specifically about the Clearpath motors that make them favorable over anything else?

Performance, low cost (compared to AC servos and drives), and ease of use. The Clearpaths are "all-in-one": integrated motor/drive/encoder. Easy to use like steppers but they're true closed-loop servos and perform as such. They also have a self-tuning feature.

There are a few variants. The "SD" (step direction) type are often used in CNC applications but for what we're talking about here, the other variants are actually a better choice as they provide easy hardcoded point-to-point positioning and/or the ability to fine tune the accel/decel of the load. All variants accurately home to a hardstop like a rubber bumper, eliminating the need for a prox sensor.

 

[YoDoug]

FWIW, every shop needs to find their balance when it comes to make versus buy decisions. For us my time to design and program automation is a fixed overhead cost. The decision comes down to primarily two factors, how much time machining components for automation and how long to implement. That being said, If you are busy with a full production schedule implementing a custom built unloader could be time consuming versus how quickly a cobot can be deployed. $40k for a cobot seems like a lot of money, but if gain an extra 4 hours a day at $60/hr of sellable production, versus having the machine sitting idle, you will pay back that $40k in less than 6 months. Plus the cobot can quickly be redeployed to other tasks if needed.

 

[Ox]

@Milling man, Sorry, I couldn't resist.

To get back to my question:

@Orange Vice you are right, a robot cell is definitely the best choice. But since I started last year and already have a lease on the Haas lathe, I don't really want to get into more debt. Last summer the work stopped for a while and then the monthly lease is quite a burden.

@Ox, you just mean to make a tray behind the sub-spindle and let the parts fall in there? With the Haas, the sub-spindle is hollow, so that could work. But I'm afraid that the parts will be launched when it starts turning again. I don't have any way to push the part completely out of the sub-spindle, which would mean that one part would be clamped in the chuck and one or maybe two parts would be loose in the spindle, which would then turn (sounds pretty scary to me ).

I've been tinkering in between jobs and almost got something working on the Okuma, will upload a video tomorrow.

Cheers, Peter

What you need is two anchor points behind and inline with your spindle. One that moves with the sub, and one that stays put.

You run a "dead" liner up into the sub. This is anchored to the moveable anchoring point. I like pvc for this. You start with the biggest pvc that will fit, and if you are running small D parts, then you bush it down to the closest pipe size that will work. The closer the better as you can let parts get beside others and jam it up. And the smallest tube needs to go as close as you can get to the back of the collet without rubbing when the collet is closed and empty.

Of course your part needs to be of a shape that allows it to push the previous parts.

Next you put the next larger size pipe over the dead liner. It is anchored to the sheetmetal superstructure so that it doesn't move. This tube will run up to the back of the collet closer / spindle, and then back further to an unload point.

The inner (dead) tube has to stick out the back long enough so that when the sub is all the way fwd that it doesn't pull out of the outter tube.

Now your new part just pushes the other gradually out the back, and they drop into a tray or ??? Be aware that you could git some coolant out the back as well. It takes some time to develop your system.

Any parts that will work that way, that's what we doo. If the parts won't stack w/o jamming, then we drop'm in the chip conveyor and sort later.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Mr. Atoz]

View attachment 385069

The list keeps getting longer as I try to get into automation, I don't even want to think about chip management at the moment.

You are so right to be concerned about chip management. Without that, failure is assured.