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I guess its time for me to start my own Home shop thread.

Any concerns/plans around fire suppression in the battery room? Even just heat management? Curious what that all requires...
the packs are set up for water cooling. they are really only needed in an automotive application when you have high rate of discharge. i'll eventually hook that up but most likely will never need it in a steady state situation.
 
In my opinion Li batteries are the worst energy storage solution for a home, hobby or business, because of the temperature sensitivity and potential fire risk. Lead acid, deep discharge batteries are still the preferred storage solution for large UPS (Unbreakable Power Systems) systems for critical infrastructure like airlines, banks and military computer systems for a reason.
 
Are you willing to deal with the massive fire danger of lithium batteries if one ever has a breach? Tree limb falls through roof, wind storm knocks something over, you're moving something and drop it on a battery, or failure for whatever other reason? What is your backup plan when the first battery meets end of life and you can't get a $20k+ replacement?

Do you have hail in your area? Are you willing to lose all of your solar panels from it?

Is your work able to exist at the whim of a hundred little finicky things like weather, cloudy days, battery or wiring issues, dead CNC drives, etc.?

Are you willing to go through all of this work, just to flip the switch on your machine and see an axis alarm because it can't draw the spindle up or stop it correctly with this system?

Are you willing to never be able to get insurance on your shop because you're out of electrical code? Any adjuster that walks in and sees the figurative 'atomic bomb' of batteries powering your shop is going to tell you they won't touch it.


I get the feeling of wanting to be FREE after getting out of California, but these amenities exist for a reason. If it's a hobby shop then do whatever you'd like, but if you're trying to future-proof your business into something stable and profitable I wouldn't screw around with hobby shop level infrastructure. This stuff is the bedrock of all your equipment.

You should be an insurance salesman.

You act like the majority of machine shop owners actually have covers on their breaker panels.
 
The solar/battery for shop power would have never have entered my mind as a possibility.
I will add to what others have said about rotary’s.
In our area we are limited to 30 hp motors for direct line start.
My first CNC lathe to have a big enough capacity for the regeneration side when it braked - I had set of two 30 hp rotary’s. The meter actually went backwards every time the lathe braked.
Final setup before we bit the bullet and brought in 3 phase-
The two 30 hp, a 40 hp and another 30 hp and a separate 15 hp for manual equipment only.
This ran
Doosan 2100 MSY, Hyundai 15-s
Three Fadals, a Haas horizontal
A 40 hp pull broach machine, 2 manual lathes, and two manual mills and a surface grinder.
The only time we had to be careful was when the lathes were doing high rpm turning, we would get enough voltage drop on the fake leg and machines would alarm out.
So we had to communicate and organize what work we were running.
This was all run from a 400 amp single phase on a 50 KV a transformer
 
You should be an insurance salesman.

You act like the majority of machine shop owners actually have covers on their breaker panels.
After a literal roof over the machinery and a floor to put them on, electricity is the most important factor in any shop. Are my points invalid? Is it really worth spending tens of thousands of dollars to provide a very questionable 'money-saving solution' that's going to have a useful life of, what, maybe 10 years? Maybe 20 years? Maybe you flip the switch on day 1 and it doesn't work? Does that math make sense? These are serious questions. Joke away, frankly being able to just beef up the incoming wires & panel and turn the lights on with a little higher electric bill sure sounds nicer than the proposed alternative.
 
After a literal roof over the machinery and a floor to put them on, electricity is the most important factor in any shop. Are my points invalid? Is it really worth spending tens of thousands of dollars to provide a very questionable 'money-saving solution' that's going to have a useful life of, what, maybe 10 years? Maybe 20 years? Maybe you flip the switch on day 1 and it doesn't work? Does that math make sense? These are serious questions. Joke away, frankly being able to just beef up the incoming wires & panel and turn the lights on with a little higher electric bill sure sounds nicer than the proposed alternative.

No, your argument really doesn't make sense. I think you've mistaken a grid connected 3 phase battery solar power system as some kind of toy when it's easily constructed to be the opposite.

You do understand your CNC's run on 380V DC power right? What technology do you expect they use to do that? You don't think there's any parallels here?

I run some real heavy machines- Probably way more than you do- From a 60HP RPC. As my fulltime job, almost 20 years now.

If I had batteries like the OP I'd do what he's talking about in a heartbeat.
 
After a literal roof over the machinery and a floor to put them on, electricity is the most important factor in any shop. Are my points invalid? Is it really worth spending tens of thousands of dollars to provide a very questionable 'money-saving solution' that's going to have a useful life of, what, maybe 10 years? Maybe 20 years? Maybe you flip the switch on day 1 and it doesn't work? Does that math make sense? These are serious questions. Joke away, frankly being able to just beef up the incoming wires & panel and turn the lights on with a little higher electric bill sure sounds nicer than the proposed alternative.
The obvious solution to your anxiety is a large 3 phase generator and diesel fuel to run it. If you are really paranoid over a power loss, you employ a battery bank that will provide just enough load time to start and switch in the gen set. It is the standard, conventional and most economical solution and totally independent of other external influencers. Unquestionably, the best battery in the world is still dinosaur oil in both energy density, cost, volume and reliability. Until that and the electric power transmission infrastructure changes, nothing else is adequate.
 
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I have seen one shop running a 45kva genset ........of course fuel here is $8 a gallon (thats Oz pesos) ..........however ,ypu can get a clawback on tax of some 36c /litre ,or $1.60 a gallon..................anyhoo,they were spending nearly $1000 a week on diesel,so Id say unless you are lucky enough to have gas well ,...which some do.....forget it.
 
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I have seen one shop running a 45kva genset ........of course fuel here is $8 a gallon (thats Oz pesos) ..........however ,ypu can get a clawback on tax of some 36c /litre ,or $1.60 a gallon..................anyhoo,they were spending nearly $1000 a week on diesel,so Id say unless you are lucky enough to have gas well ,...which some do.....forget it.
John, you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing an emergency solution to a permanent one and that's not the argument. Of course no one can produce individual electric power at the same cost as an electric company but I can keep running my shop, my heat and my refrigeration during a temporary outage with my solution. I have a home one man shop that I can support with a 25 KVA generator and 6,000 liters of diesel. It works and is affordable insurance.
 
Y2K?

Yeah, been there!

Customers all worried that I wouldn't be able to produce parts after midnight, and so I had to have everything for the first half of Jan on THEIR floor by 12/30.

Morons....

If my power is out, so is everyone else's, and that includes the end customer and any consumers.
Yet, even if the power goes out, they still owe me for all those parts on THEIR floor!

All logic goes out the wind'a when a threat comes down the pike...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Getting a power upgrade to 320amp/400amp service isn't too bad. I had DTE do one at my last house in 2020. I installed the meter socket and they trenched the 175 ft, installed a 50kva transformer and larger feeders. It was $1500 because it was residential upgrade and they aren't allowed to bill you for the transformer. If you go 3 phase, you have to pay for the transformer, plus the rates are higher, plus the demand charge. So I had 200 amps to the house and 200 amps to the barn. In the barn I had a PP PT-380 and that was able to run a haas vf2ss, vf4ss, st15, doosan puma 2600 syii, 10hp screw compressor, and cnc auto saw all at the same time. Sometimes even a welder, bridge port, belt sander at the same time.
 
pic below was the result of a lithium ion battery that fit in your hand and wiped out our first shop in the middle of the night. looked like a volcano went off where the battery malfunctioned and melted down.....moral of the story i'd at least think real hard about putting those batteries in the same building as where you are building up your long term dream and a lot of expensive equipment. although the chances are very small we got bit hard by the 1 in a large # statistic.....

i'm a big alt energy guy messing with brewing bio diesel, we warehouse a ton of solar for large projects here in WI and will be installing a large system down the road to power a good portion of one of our facilities, and if i had access to batteries like that for cheap i'd mess with them. just be careful its scary just how much energy is stored in those things and if something goes south its never good. our whole shop and all CNCs were pretty much a total loss.



IMG_4447.jpg
 
pic below was the result of a lithium ion battery that fit in your hand and wiped out our first shop in the middle of the night. looked like a volcano went off where the battery malfunctioned and melted down.....moral of the story i'd at least think real hard about putting those batteries in the same building as where you are building up your long term dream and a lot of expensive equipment. although the chances are very small we got bit hard by the 1 in a large # statistic.....

i'm a big alt energy guy messing with brewing bio diesel, we warehouse a ton of solar for large projects here in WI and will be installing a large system down the road to power a good portion of one of our facilities, and if i had access to batteries like that for cheap i'd mess with them. just be careful its scary just how much energy is stored in those things and if something goes south its never good. our whole shop and all CNCs were pretty much a total loss.



View attachment 435283
thank you for sharing your experience. sorry about what happened to you. since i'll be building a separate room for the batteries, its not out of the question to build it like 10-20 ft away from the main barn, will be taking that into consideration for sure.
 
Getting a power upgrade to 320amp/400amp service isn't too bad. I had DTE do one at my last house in 2020. I installed the meter socket and they trenched the 175 ft, installed a 50kva transformer and larger feeders. It was $1500 because it was residential upgrade and they aren't allowed to bill you for the transformer. If you go 3 phase, you have to pay for the transformer, plus the rates are higher, plus the demand charge. So I had 200 amps to the house and 200 amps to the barn. In the barn I had a PP PT-380 and that was able to run a haas vf2ss, vf4ss, st15, doosan puma 2600 syii, 10hp screw compressor, and cnc auto saw all at the same time. Sometimes even a welder, bridge port, belt sander at the same time.
again, that'll be my backup, i do not want to have to rely on and pay for grid energy on a day to day basis, but after i do my battery/panel setup, i'll look into upgrading my service if needed for dark days etc.
 
I think it's been long enough now.
When doo we git the shop tour?
This is instant gratification world now, so put up...


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!
aint much to see yet, but i'll go take some pictures and videos of the barn here in a bit.
 
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does anyone have experience with spray foam insulation?
trying to decide spray foam vs rockwool for the barn.
Spray foam is about the most effective insulation there is. It is expensive. It is also a vapor barrier if it is closed cell (which is what I would use 90% of the time) so keep that in mind. The more (air) leaky the wall, the better that spray foam will help control the environment in the building. Also the first inch of thickness is the most effective, especially if it is also sealing air leaks. From experience, I would rate spray foam as being most effective as insulation, then cellulose, then the wool type products, although I must disclaim I have not worked with rock wool, only fiberglass. Anymore, I wouldn’t use fiberglass batts if they were free.
 
Spray foam is about the most effective insulation there is. It is expensive. It is also a vapor barrier if it is closed cell (which is what I would use 90% of the time) so keep that in mind. The more (air) leaky the wall, the better that spray foam will help control the environment in the building. Also the first inch of thickness is the most effective, especially if it is also sealing air leaks. From experience, I would rate spray foam as being most effective as insulation, then cellulose, then the wool type products, although I must disclaim I have not worked with rock wool, only fiberglass. Anymore, I wouldn’t use fiberglass batts if they were free.
one of my buddies just said that taking sheeting off after spray foam would be damn near impossible, which is a concern for me because i do want to expand the barn down the road.

benefit of rockwool is its fireproof, would be great for my battery pack/utility building.
 








 
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