I had to save this puppy FP2NC

[DeadMahoDude]

Basically, control switches on normally, but all machine interface is dead/inoperational, including the DRO.
The "STEUERSPANNUNG FUER RELAIS FEHLT", what usually appears after you clear the "STROMUNTERBRECHUNG" is missing, too.
Goes directly to DRO, which is not responding.

Current assumption, either broken/wrong wiring on E-stop or toasted PL110B board in electrical wardrobe.

Could you please pull J10 connector on your PL110 board and see, if your machine also starts without "STEUERSPANNUNG FUER RELAIS FEHLT" message?

 

[jz79]

Yeah, but what takes one button turn and one button push on a Dialog 4 control takes 5 button pushes and a keypad entry on the HDH.

were those not designed with tool room sort of use in mind specifically and for particular model of machines also?
and I can't really think of anything annoying about using the control, except 2 things maybe, Fehlmann doesn't have a spindle direction selector, it has only spindle start M3 button and spindle stop, to use left handed drill with it I must write a program with M4 in it, there is no other way... on Mikron, I can't do a tool change while in handwheel mode... which is quite annoying having to switch out/in, also having to press a button to enable tool change mode, then press the tool release button to actually release the tool, why not integrate that into 1 button is beyond me, but all these things are machine builder decisions, not HH mandates

 

[Martin P]

OK will try, but if this kills my mavchine or deletes parameters or similar, I will have to send you a letter bomb.

 

[jz79]

Basically, control switches on normally, but all machine interface is dead/inoperational, including the DRO.
The "STEUERSPANNUNG FUER RELAIS FEHLT", what usually appears after you clear the "STROMUNTERBRECHUNG" is missing, too.
Goes directly to DRO, which is not responding.

Current assumption, either broken/wrong wiring on E-stop or toasted PL110B board in electrical wardrobe.

Could you please pull J10 connector on your PL110 board and see, if your machine also starts without "STEUERSPANNUNG FUER RELAIS FEHLT" message?

you might want to check if the PLC program in the EPROM is actually readable, since without it it won't do anything and behave in the way you have it in the video

to check if EPROM is actually readable - when you're in the manual mode (you call it DRO mode), press MOD, arrow up, code:951026 to get to PLC options, press the edit program button (1. in the picture) to open the PLC editor, it shows RAM content at first, most likely will be completely empty, that is fine, then press Qdef button (red circle in picture), it will ask to copy the program from EPROM to RAM, press ENT, it should now copy the program from EPROM to RAM - now, does something change on the screen? (arrows up/down to scroll through the program) When I just checked my 355, once I open the editor, all lines are "NOP", after copying from EPROM it should show the actual program

doing any of this doesn't mess up anything on the control, you can erase that PLC program from RAM if need be, and as long as the MP77 is 1, it will ignore the program in the ram anyway

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Well, have several really dead axis end switches in the E-stop chain, guess it was too much for the control and it quit without any error message.

Really dead, not only stuck from oil/coolant crap but no contact internally dead.
Have to remove and bath them in alcohol/light oil, I guess...

EPROM dump from the TNC155, in case anyone needs it:

 

[jz79]

it wouldn't be a reliable CNC control if it would be confused by some dead end switches in a simple series circuit or two, and that wouldn't make it behave like it does in the video

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Cleaned all end switches, E-Stop chain is continuous now, problem still there, as somewhat expected.
PLC code gets loaded from EPROM as well, reloaded it as described above, didn't change a thing.
Basically gets stuck in first branch, 24V is not present at J4/4 on PL-110B "P0" board.
"STEUERSPANNUNG FUER RELAIS FEHLT" never appears, so no control/machine interaction possible.


Can someone please pull the 25pin J10 connector from PL-110B board and see, if it behaves the same as my machine then?
Then I know whether problem is on the side of PL-110B board, that had repairs/smoked capacitors previously or if something is f**''d inside the Heidenhain itself (bad PLC code, bad PSU, whatever...)

 

[Martin P]

OK, I pulled the J10 connector and started up.
It will do the "Speicher Test" as normal.
Then will say "Stromunterbrechung".
Then I press CE and it go to "Steuerspannung für Relais fehlt".
If I then press the start button nothing will happen. Also no mode change possible.

I put the connector back in, restarted all normal.
5 min later the machine quit as I was trying to figure out the spendle brake. It is not running now. Surely unrelated.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Thanks!

All 3 PL110 cards that I have here, appear to be dead when installed, outputs are all stuck at 0V.
Will build a sniffing adapter for J10 cable, so I can connect HP16500C logic analyzer in between and see, if anything happens on J10 at all, when starting the machine.
I'm quite certain something is broken with the PLC or all 3 PL110 cards have blown up.
I somewhat hope for broken bus driver chip or similar on TNC155 side.

"Power ON" button on control is unrelated to PLC.
PLC needs to switch a relay in between E-Stop chain and Power ON button, so that "Power ON" relays can latch in ON state, when pressing "Power ON" button.
Since all outputs are of PLC are 0V, "Power ON" button is not conncted to E-Stop chain.

 

[jz79]

3 PLC boards bad and behave exactly the same? what would the possibility of that be...

I looked in the TNC155 service manual, and it basically says that in this case to send the TNC to them for repairs... Service manual (available on Heidenhain site, at least was a while ago when I downloaded the 155 related PDFs) lists 2 power supply board layouts for TNC, would be a good idea to start there, verify that all the voltages are there, then there was a block diagram showing optocouplers on the PLC interface on the TNC side

the Fehlmann I have that has the 155, isn't connected to power right now, and it will be a hassle to connect it, it is packed up in storage, but if everything falls apart, I can do it, disconnect the PL110, and see if it behaves like your machine does, at last check if reads scales when the PLC is not connected, since I know mine is fully functional

 

[Gloryrates500]

Hello, everyone,

I have a small TNC150Q test stand for my old MIKRON WF3DCM.
The PL110B is also installed as a power board in this.
If J10 is not connected, after pressing CE, the error message "Control voltage for relay is missing" appears.

 

[Martin P]

???????
No!

That message appears when all is connected.
Literally first page of the HDH manual.
In German: 'Steuerspannung für Relais fehlt'

 

[Gloryrates500]

Yeah, but what takes one button turn and one button push on a Dialog 4 control takes 5 button pushes and a keypad entry on the HDH.

Hi Martin,
i know what you did today....

Cheers

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Got that fricking HH TNC155 running, source of all trouble, machine parameter MP170: =>2 instead of 0
What a fking joke, bought another HH TNC151, swapped cards, just to realize that the parameter listing I had, had an hand drawn arrow next to MP170...
Set it to zero, that damn thing works, lol!!
Still have spindle motor overtemp error, but all that stuff should be fixable, now that Heidenhain is talking with the rest of the machine...

Paramter file I sucked over USB-RS232, with MP170 corrected ;-D
MP 0 : 10000
MP 1 : 10000
MP 2 : 10000
MP 3 : 3240
MP 4 : 1350
MP 5 : 1350
MP 6 : 1350
MP 7 : 1350
MP 8 : 2000
MP 9 : 2000
MP 10 : 2000
MP 11 : 2000
MP 12 : 1
MP 13 : 1
MP 14 : 1
MP 15 : 1
MP 16 : 1
MP 17 : 1
MP 18 : 0
MP 19 : 0
MP 20 : 0
MP 21 : 0
MP 22 : 0
MP 23 : 0
MP 24 : 0
MP 25 : 1
MP 26 : 0
MP 27 : 0
MP 28 : 0
MP 29 : 0
MP 30 : 0
MP 31 : 0
MP 32 : 0,360
MP 33 : 0,360
MP 34 : 0,360
MP 35 : 0,360
MP 36 : +0,000
MP 37 : +0,000
MP 38 : +0,000
MP 39 : +0,000
MP 40 : +0,000
MP 41 : +0,000
MP 42 : +0,000
MP 43 : +0,000
MP 44 : +495,100
MP 45 : -505,100
MP 46 : +250,100
MP 47 : -250,100
MP 48 : +10,100
MP 49 : -540,100
MP 50 : +30000,000
MP 51 : -30000,000
MP 52 : 8,600
MP 53 : 0,100
MP 54 : 1,500
MP 55 : 0,700
MP 56 : 10,000
MP 57 : 30,000
MP 58 : 0,010
MP 59 : 14
MP 60 : 1
MP 61 : 0
MP 62 : 4
MP 63 : 46891
MP 64 : 0,100
MP 65 : 1
MP 66 : 0
MP 67 : 0,000
MP 68 : 0
MP 69 : 0
MP 70 : 0,020
MP 71 : 515
MP 72 : 8
MP 73 : 0,000
MP 74 : 7
MP 75 : 0
MP 76 : 0
MP 77 : 1
MP 78 : 780,000
MP 79 : 4200,000
MP 80 : 0,000
MP 81 : 0,000
MP 82 : 0,000
MP 83 : 0,000
MP 84 : 0,000
MP 85 : 0,000
MP 86 : 7,000
MP 87 : 7,000
MP 88 : 100
MP 89 : 50
MP 90 : 1
MP 91 : 1,000
MP 92 : 0
MP 93 : 1,200
MP 94 : 0
MP 95 : 11
MP 96 : 0
MP 97 : 0
MP 98 : 0
MP 99 : 0
MP 100 : 0
MP 101 : 0
MP 102 : 0
MP 103 : 0
MP 104 : 0
MP 105 : 0
MP 106 : 0
MP 107 : 0
MP 108 : 0
MP 109 : 0
MP 110 : 3000
MP 111 : 27000
MP 112 : 300
MP 113 : 50
MP 114 : 75
MP 115 : 35
MP 116 : 50
MP 117 : 50
MP 118 : 100
MP 119 : 25
MP 120 : 150
MP 121 : 120
MP 122 : 600
MP 123 : 50
MP 124 : 50
MP 125 : 0
MP 126 : +0,000
MP 127 : +0,000
MP 128 : +0,000
MP 129 : +0,000
MP 130 : +0,000
MP 131 : +0,000
MP 132 : +0,000
MP 133 : +0,000
MP 134 : +0,000
MP 135 : +0,000
MP 136 : +0,000
MP 137 : +0,000
MP 138 : +0,000
MP 139 : +0,000
MP 140 : +0,000
MP 141 : +0,000
MP 142 : +0,000
MP 143 : +0,000
MP 144 : +0,000
MP 145 : +0,000
MP 146 : +0,000
MP 147 : +0,000
MP 148 : +0,000
MP 149 : +0,000
MP 150 : +0,000
MP 151 : +0,000
MP 152 : +0,000
MP 153 : +0,000
MP 154 : +0,000
MP 155 : +0,000
MP 156 : +0,000
MP 157 : 0
MP 158 : 8
MP 159 : 0
MP 160 : 0
MP 161 : 0
MP 162 : 0
MP 163 : 80
MP 164 : 80
MP 165 : 80
MP 166 : 80
MP 167 : 1
MP 168 : 1,999
MP 169 : 0,200
MP 170 : 0
MP 171 : 0
MP 172 : 0
MP 173 : 1
MP 174 : 35,000
MP 175 : 15,000
MP 176 : 0,400
MP 177 : 1,500
MP 178 : 1,500
MP 179 : 1,500
MP 180 : 1,500
MP 181 : 40,000
MP 182 : 100
MP 183 : 100
MP 184 : 0,175
MP 185 : 0,000
MP 186 : +0,000
MP 187 : +0,000
MP 188 : +0,000
MP 189 : +0,000
MP 190 : 0
MP 191 : 1
MP 192 : 0,010
MP 193 : 100
MP 194 : 25
MP 195 : 0
MP 196 : 50
MP 197 : 0
MP 198 : 0
MP 199 : 0
MP 200 : 50
MP 201 : 0
MP 202 : 0
MP 203 : 0
MP 204 : 0
MP 205 : 1000
MP 206 : 20
MP 207 : 25
MP 208 : 200
MP 209 : 0
MP 210 : 0
MP 211 : 0
MP 212 : 0
MP 213 : 1
MP 214 : 2
MP 215 : 80
MP 216 : 0,000
MP 217 : 0
MP 218 : 17701
MP 219 : 16677
MP 220 : 279
MP 221 : 5382
MP 222 : 168
MP 223 : 0
MP 224 : 4
MP 225 : 0
MP 226 : 795
MP 227 : 16648
MP 228 : 0
MP 229 : 0
MP 230 : 1290
MP 231 : 6990
MP 232 : 2
MP 233 : 0
MP 234 : 0,300
MP 235 : 0,000
MP 236 : 0
MP 237 : 0
MP 238 : 0,100
MP 239 : 0
MP 240 : 0,000
MP 241 : 0
MP 242 : 0
MP 243 : 0
MP 244 : 0
MP 245 : 0
MP 246 : 1
MP 247 : 0
MP 248 : 0,000
MP 249 : 0
MP 250 : 0
MP 251 : 900
MP 252 : 0
MP 253 : 0
MP 254 : 0
MP 255 : 0
MP 256 : 0
MP 257 : 0
MP 258 : 0,000
MP 259 : 0
MP 260 : 0
MP 261 : 0
MP 262 : 0
MP 263 : 0

 

[Martin P]

Interesting.
I found that the parameters on my machine do not match the parameters provided with the machine.
Some differences make sense and others don't, and I don't understand why they would change.
What is the likelihood of such data changing by itself? I have no idea.

 

[Martin P]

From the 355 manual, but probably same for 155.
Is this as cool as it seems? It seems this parameter allows to run the PLC from an external programming station.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

No idea, why the listing has MP 170 => 2, from the documents I got with the machine, it seems like the control got swapped out not too long ago.
And the guys who swapped it, pulled the parameters from old control over RS232 and printed it (4 pages I used from machine documents) and somehow, MP170 ended up as 2.

Also the guy I bought the machine from, had the machine at a farmhouse, out in nowhere, with like a km of 3ph/400V cable between high voltage transformer and machine.
Apparently every time he started the 15HP spindle, the lights went dim and sometimes the control crashed, too.
Likely what killed a couple of capacitors on PL110 board, so I was looking more towards killed chips that something else, that's why I also bought a spare TNC151 for 400€, basically a TNC155 without graphics/graphics board.

Funny thing was that machine was working (with tantalum capacitors frying), when we disassembled it for shipping. Lived for a couple of months under a tarp, until I had fully paid and arranged a truck for it, during that time, batteries in HH died, machine lost parameters and nothing worked, when I put wrong parameters back in.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Trollololoooo

 

[gustafson]

Holy crap, programming station only, that'l fook you up

I would not have caught that in a million years

 

[MuckingAbout]

My first post on this forum. Well done on finding the MP 170 issue. I had a dead Maho with TNC with a dead backup battery. Fortunately I had a punch tape with them which took me days to read. Also, the guy commissioning it wrote them all down in the Mounting Instructions manual. But I first downloaded them of site with Bridgeport ones. And then carefully edited what was different for my Maho. Then I put them in via the serial port. I hope the rest of this helps you have fun with these machines.

It seems to me that it would be helpful to have information on the capabilities off the TNC series in G code so you can write your own programs. If you go here to my OneDrive you find a bunch of files that cover, in English, a tutorial on G code programming your Heidenhain TNC 151/155/355. There is not much to know about this series TNC programming in G code that isn't here:

OneDrive

1drv.ms

But please read this:

I sent this directory link to our local Heidenhain support people. Then we had a pleasant phone discussion. There doesn't seem to be a problem with posting this directory on the blogs. It's old stuff and not much related to current business. But please respect the fact that in doing so that Heidenhain retains the copyright. So use it for your personal learning and keeping these old machines running, especially if you are retired, a student, or just a home hobbyist. Please don't use it for commercial purposes, or you might find this privilege disappears.

I have translated most of the Heidehain TNC tutorial from German. At least one example from each chapter. I don't speak German, It's done in Google translate. I've done my best to turn this older version of German into English that actually makes sense as per technical English, then tested the instructions on my TNC 155 in every case. There are 2 pdf files. Both the same, but one in better resolution. They are searchable in Adobe Reader to make stuff easy to find.

For each example translated you will find the corresponding G code computer file, debugged and commented line by line as best I understand it. This will save you the tedium of hand typing them. Each program has been tested on my Maho MH 700C as functioning correctly. If you choose to try them, you do so at your own risk. You may have to modify things a bit for your machine, in particular the machine parameters.

I'm using the ISO G code overlay keyboard on my TNC 155B, but I usually write my programs on a PC using Notepad++. It has a G code plugin.

Note that because the files are in G code they all end ".I" not ".H". Note also that there are semicolons after each block of code I have given. In a block, anything after the semicolon or "*' (you can use either, but most modern machines use semicolon) will be ignored. You don't have to remove the comments. The TNC and TNCserver will do that for you. So blast away with comments in your programs so you can understand them later. But not too long or the TNC gets upset. I don't know just how long the comments can get. It seems to vary depending on the block.

You will find rather dull videos of each of the programs videod off my graphic screen and the Maho running them in mid-air. But I hope you find them helpful if you actually get that far.

There is a small directory containing what you will need to get the serial communication working for your TNC. There is a diagram for the cable that runs from the rear connector of the TNC 155B to the wall of the cabinet your TNC is mounted in. I've done it with a DB 9 so I don't need a DB25 to DB 9 adapter. But if you wish to use the DB 25 just look up the straight through conversion of a DB9 to a DB25. The Dtech USB converter cable works fine, but don't run it through your machine, there is too much electrical noise. Remember to install the driver for it.

Heidehain provides a program called TNCserver which supports these versions of controller, still, after all this time! Well done Heidenhain. It is found inside TNCcremo but you don't need all that, just TNCserver program. There are plenty of places helping to get this working including these blogs, but I can help if needed. Remember to get TNCserver to search for which PC comm ports are available, especially if you have recently shifted the USB plug on your PC, and set the coms speed (9600 in FE mode for me). Don't try running TNCserver as the command console, just set it up do it show "ready" down at the bottom. The file movement commands must come from the TNC 151/155/355 console.

My Maho has an 18 speed gearbox so the TNC coded outputs are used. MP 62 is set to 2 in my case. There is coded communication to a standalone PLC that executes the gear change. I've added speed coding as well so that I can vary the star/delta timing of the spindle motor. My Maho is a big heavy machine and the inertia of the high speed gears requires up to 4 seconds in star to get the spindle going. If there is interest I can put enough up so you can do stuff like maybe set up a gear changing. But for now this is enough to start.

Good luck with keeping these old machines running.