What's new
What's new

Intellectual Property

there is information and then there is information
M code loaded files for instance

design price was predicated on a contract
now its a change order
Niners - Iggles, I'll put up $.25 on the outcome if you want to take the guys with the funny green uniforms.

Altho I have to admit the spangly gold pants are kind of gay (appropriate, maybe). But we got a mafia descendant on the line so youse guys maybe wanta take a step back eh ? gotta nice little business goin' there, I heah. Wouldn't want nuthin bad to happen to it ... fire, flood, tommy gun ...
I believe DD is in western Pa. That's Steelers territory. He may not know who the Eagles are...maybe a band?
Do you ever want any more work from this customer ?

In my experience, as a small shop, no, I never want to do work for people who play bait and switch. I've always had enough decent customers so I didn't have to and it made life a lot nicer, not having to watch your back all the time. Plus I got screwed that way a few times, wasn't fun.

But not everyone is in that position.

I believe DD is in western Pa. That's Steelers territory. He may not know who the Eagles are...maybe a band?

I hate the steelers worse, "immaculate reception" my ass, it was a bad call. The ball has to touch a defensive player between offensive bounces and it never did. That was a historic ripoff.

But I was thinking more along geographic lines - I'd expect a guy from Houston (oilers ! not whatever the eff they call themselves now, that's stupid) to still be rooting for a texas team over the fruits and nuts on the west coast. But we already beat them (again !) so no chance there :D
design price was predicated on a contract
I will ass-u-me that this in print on the original quote.
Or are you not playing with a full deck and assuming that business is fair and nice to all?
As customer I paid for design work. If I paid you I now own that and owe nothing else.
If you did if for free we have a different story and obligations.
Take this as lesson learned. It will not be the only time.
Full bill the design cost and be happy when the check clears.

I know the feeling but see no room to complain in your mess. That you have done so here says a few things.
Perhaps you could correct my point of view as I could be all wrong.
Last edited:
I will ass-u-me that this in print on the original quote.

Yeah right. You know that's not how it works at the smallshop level ...

Or are you not playing with a full deck and assuming that business is fair and nice to all?

You do that auto stuff. Those are sharks. Many of us started off green as grass behind the ears, with yes, silly ideas about business being "fair" and "honest".

I can sympathize with his position. Have been there, no, wasn't written down but was definitely understood. Then when the product turns out okay, oops, there's a guy in LA can make these for ten cents less, bye !

What I took away from that ? As a small shop, if there's enough retail possibility to make a product viable, then sell it yourself. That's where the money is. 10% more work, 100% more money, at least.
Comes back to what the original agreement was and how well it's documented.

Plenty of ways to technically comply but really, I'd give over the minimal functional model/drawings and move on. If there wasn't a fixed price, then bill all hours at full design rate and see what the customer says.

I once wrote a program to remove all white space, comments, indentation and rename all variables to something like VAR_00000001 upwards because the client fucked me about. Similar with function calls etc.The requirement was to deliver full source code that would compile into a functional & working program.

Well, it did. Good luck reading/modifying it though.

Thanks for the reply’s guys
I’m probably gonna eat this one and get a base contract up for the next time to avoid any confusion with any more customers
You can always include all the aborted versions of what you did.

After all, the customer paid you to do it.

Nobody said you had to tell them which (of potentially dozens) of iterations worked!
If they asked you to design and do cad files, then you bill them for that, and hand it to them at the same time they hand you the $$$. None of this here's the files you can pay me in 30 years.
I'm not a sports fan by any means, so I still can't xlate what EG posted.

Wow. Okay, I guess the bet is off :)

49ers are playing the Eagles this sunday for the nfl championship. Both teams are very good, it should be a nail-biter. Football is a sport but it's also a chess game, which makes it more interesting for me.

I guess not everyone feels that way :D
Back to the OP.....you may find the customer will use you again for Design/CAD if you bill it out properly, and you may come to find out that it is good work.
No need to burn a bridge.
verbal contracts are still contracts
what it really boils down to is the cost of pursuing their "claim" in time and fees

legally it would be difficult to assert it was "just" a design contract
if its "just" a design contract print it out as a blueprint and call it good
I would charge full shop rate for drawings and design. Once delivered I would say "I will credit x amount if you decide to use me as the manufacturer." I don't mind doing design work sometimes. Especially if something I design is not worth my time to build.