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Inventor wants to help us on his jobs in shop+sign NDA

You can't compare Musk to Steven Seagal who, after gaining over 100 pounds, is now a Russian citizen and who favors Putin's war on Ukraine. :rolleyes5:

Musk has literally parroted putin's talking points:

I agree that Seagal is repulsive (in all ways), but he's far less consequential than Musk.
 
Musk has literally parroted putin's talking points:

I agree that Seagal is repulsive (in all ways), but he's far less consequential than Musk.
I had considered a Tesla as our next car. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who has taken a Tesla off their wish list in electric cars. The idea of supporting someone with views like Musk's doesn't appeal to a lot of us.
 
I had considered a Tesla as our next car. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who has taken a Tesla off their wish list in electric cars. The idea of supporting someone with views like Musk's doesn't appeal to a lot of us.

No idea about the views of musk.

But he is the guy who hires the most us new engineers, creates most new engineering jobs in the us vs anyone else, and gives stock options to auto line workers that have made most of them near millionaires in 5-7 years.
Auto line workers got about 800.000 $ in tesla stock options, if they joined about 5+ years ago.

Tsla is by far the best EV on the planet.
SpaceX is by far the best space launch company.

Tsla is the best, most profitable, auto business in the world, employing large numbers of US workers in auto stuff, engineering, and battery stuff.
Tsla has the best power electronics in the world, by far better than siemens or abb or bosch.
Designed and built in the usa, by us engineers working for mr musk.

By many accounts mr musk and tsla are hard to work for. Sure.
But very well paid for it.
Imo.
 
A PHD inventor wants to participate as we do his job (prototype.) I don’t have much problem but he insists on a non-disc. Agreement. I don’t have issue there either but his version is many pages of convoluted legalese no one can understand. I’ll offer to sign a simple one-pager I found on web, after we execute some kind of contract.

I’m looking for suggestions on how to structure/price our services where he’s here “helping.” I’m thinking the hourly charge should be based on the time he’s in the shop plus our hours when he’s not and we’re working for him, since he’ll be our primary customer and we’ll be paying all our attention to him when he’s here. I’ve also thought about just having him pay our rent or rent plus since he’ll be our primary work ($7k:mo.)

Comments? Anyone have past contract copies they’d share for a similar situation?
It's just money, I would say no, some of these engineer's (PhD whatever) can be a huge pain and drag a job out times 10-20X, Nah!
Plus NDA or not, if he gets hurt, your in a mess, because your insurance doesnt cover random PhD working in your shop.
you cant sign away liability with a waiver, talk to your lawyer.
 
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It's just money, I would say no, some of these engineer's (PhD whatever) can be a huge pain and drag a job out times 10-20X, Nah!
Plus NDA or not, if he gets hurt, your in a mess, because your insurance doesnt cover random PhD working in your shop.
Re liability: So make the PhD an employee.
 
Just be careful.
We had a big government job come in a a place where I worked.
It was some parts for a lock & dam.
The corp of engineers sent an expert/engineer to be there the whole time.
He stayed in the brake room mostly.
He would come out every 10 minutes " It is ready yet?".
His common list of comments were:.
Shouldn't that be turning faster?
Would it be faster to have another guy machine the other part?
Why do you have to change to a mill for a keyway?
You can drill a bolt pattern in a lathe. I've done it!
Just stupid comments all day.

It was awful.
Just be careful what you sign up for.
 
It's just money, I would say no, some of these engineer's (PhD whatever) can be a huge pain and drag a job out times 10-20X, Nah!
Plus NDA or not, if he gets hurt, your in a mess, because your insurance doesnt cover random PhD working in your shop.
you cant sign away liability with a waiver, talk to your lawyer.

I don´t get it.
If he buys your work, if he is there or not, you get paid, no ?
NDA == to someone paying for "work for hire".

It´s not someone looking for a wage and an insurance payoff, in other words.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything, even with no reason.
Any widget you make, someone potentially could sue you ..
But in most cases making widgets, most wont sue, and in most cases, most suits would not have any merit.

I do understand that in the US suits don´t routinely get tossed out so much, for not having any reasonable merit.
In Spain, in Finland, and in the EU in general lawsuits need to have a fairly good base of facts and a reasonable preponderance of merit // facts supporting them, or otherwise the law clerks, judges, or other parties lawyers (if even involved) will simply get them tossed out.

A private individual, without a lawyer, or a company director, even without a lawyer, can simply approach a judge after a suit has been served and point out that it has no merit.
I´ve done that successfully.
Pointing out that the company in question had no relevance to the issue, there were no contracts or bills or invoices or work done - just a nuisance suit.
Tossed out by the judge before any trial.

I´ve also done the same with a harrasment nuisance suit, basically designed to get a payoff, for someone who never did any work (was on 5 day free training) but wanted to get a payoff.
Tossed out by the judge - in trial.
Everyone, including my lawyer, wanted me to pay something, even a 1000$, to the other party, just before the trial.

The judge ruled, correctly, that there was no work done, no contracts were signed, and free training for a possible future job-offer did not constitute a labour relationship.

Here in the EU lawyers are not all that expensive, and there are no draconian penalties, unless serious fraud, or risk to life, or major fraud is involved.

Example:
I built an amusement park ride, once, with more than 3 m free height, qualifiyng it as potentially lethal.
This paid for my first serious industrial lathe.

The guy who came to inspect it, from the UK, qualified to work all across the EU, from the company who approves all UK parks, approved it first time.
He advised us, beforehand, on what we should have and do so that he could approve it. Free advice, just to help new startup people.
E.g.
My gearbox (underneath a platform) with wire transmission was not shielded, but was over 3 m in height.
I said that magic johnson could not jump that high - thus no shielding was necessary.
He agreed.

Likewise, because I built an inverse struss box, like a boat but supported on top via stressed-skin and not cross-members, that I built to support about 4000 kg, with a max load of less than 350 kg, it was more than the industry standard 10:1 safety margin required for potentially lethal devices/amusement park rides/etc.
He agreed.
Think of an old-style wooden rowboat, with ribs, but flat and about 4x4 m in size.
And double-skin.

Kind of like modern machine tools, lathes, vmc, that are stressed-skin structures.

2 layers of crossed plywood, 12 mm iirc, screwed on == 120 mm == 5" distance all across, about 3000 screws. On 2x4" beams that were there basically to hold the screws and support the deck of 3.5 x 3.5 m == 12 feet, supported at the edges only.
Any failure would have needed a large number of screws shearing off the double-deck plywood simultaneously.

Having 30 people of 100 kg each would not have broken the deck.
Only 4 at a time were allowed on deck, in operation.
My opinion on 3000 kg real max load, my experience, but my architect (consultant only, but who signed and certified the structure officially, registered at the local buildings registry), and the uk-based parks inspector agreed.

My point is that;
-done that, been there
-don´t worry too much about theoretical nuisance suits - get some insurance just in case. A little bit is not expensive. The client pays for it.
-no matter what, you could always be sued. Worrying won´t help
-if the client wants to help, and is an engineer, maybe put them to work ?

Most engineers are actually really smart and capable and eager.
They may not have all that much practical experience, although perhaps 50%++ do in scandinavia and spain, but someone smart and capable and eager is always useful.
 
Just yesterday my boss called me in on a zoom call with an inventor. It happened to be in an area I know a lot about. The guys design was terrible, and dangerous because it involved high voltages. I am a crazy ass inventor myself, took years for me to admit it. All the automation projects at my last job were my ideas, all the current projects we have were my idea. I was explaining something I designed the other day and out of the blue my boss says "I am always amazed at how you do this!" So yeah, this crazy ass inventor told him to pass on this inventor project.
 
GHL comes to the nub of the matter ....the inventor has a unworkable ,unmakable design.........you can instantly see a dozen improvements and changes to make it practical........Do you give all this for free ,in the interest of the project ......or do you keep it to yourself ,knowing the job will last 10x as long,and make the shop a whole lot more money chasing dead ends.?
 
I just had this conversation with a engineer at a customer regarding work. You come to me with a drawing and 3D models etc it's a straight forward job at $120/hr. You come to me with an idea or problem and no idea on how to design/manufacture it, what I refer to as an idea but no idea. The rate is $500/hr and he agreed. However there is one other proviso, if my unique input will create something that is going to make you a shit ton of money I am going to charge you a shit ton of money.

Example. Client came to me asking to manufacture a post gluing system on a medical device during the height of COVID. Without going into details I reduced their cycle time by 7 to 8 minutes per assembly just on that operation. This is a $700k to $800k annual saving just on production line time. Now add to this the fact that without the savings the product is not viable to produce. I charged $4500 for design and manufacture of the device and the client bitched. Next job this client better lube up because it will be in cost recovery mode and it's going to hurt.

Regarding a client working in my workshop
"NO FUCKING WAY EVER". If you need to say it politely say you have highly confidential client work in your workshop and no clients are allowed in the workshop area. I visited a supplier in Dongguan China and they told me point blank not even BMW or McDonald's who are clients sets a foot in their workshop. I was allowed to look in from the roller door and that was it, not negotiable.
 
Tesla: the world's first self-recalling car. Might be great to drive but, like big semi trucks, I won't ride anywherer near one of those. We've all seen the videos.
 
Tsla has the best power electronics in the world, by far better than siemens or abb or bosch.
Designed and built in the usa, by us engineers working for mr musk.
^^^^^^^^^That's why I buy all of the Tesla stock I can afford.^^^^^^
 
Tesla: the world's first self-recalling car. Might be great to drive but, like big semi trucks, I won't ride anywherer near one of those. We've all seen the videos.

What videos? Are you talking about FSD Beta? 3 years and 70K miles on my Tesla with zero troubles. Never have I ever had such a reliable vehicle.
 








 
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