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Iron Tour 2015 - Lots of pics
- Thread starter TNB
- Start date
- Replies 202
- Views 131,380
Mud
Diamond
- Joined
- May 20, 2002
- Location
- South Central PA
I like them just fine to visit. When it's mine I feel an urge to buy things to fill it up. 
Because, and that's what was cool in this trip, after seeing Herr Franz Singer and his craftmen team at work, we had the opportunity to visit FPS... FPS is a pretty young company, since it was founded in the mid nineties by former Deckel employees (a common trait with Franz Singer, who also worked 15 yers for Deckel IIRC).
It seems like their business model was good, since it is now a real manufacturer of its own, together with a well established Deckel machines rebuilder.
FPS machines have already been discussed here, but we did visit the plant where they are assembled and saw them in flesh so to speak. These are brand new machines, built from 100% new castings made in Germany.
That's a whole different world from the crowded environment at Singer's. Brand new buildings, vast halls, extremely clear and perfectly organized workspace... Young people working in small groups here and there (apprentices may be).
Could have been a commercial, except this was for true !
A bit like visiting Friedrich Deckel factory in 2015...
Never forget where you're coming from...
Castings, castings, castings... I don't know for sure on this picture because the plant also rebuilds older machines, but for their new line, FPS use brand new castings and made in Germany... I've seen shelves and shelves covered with those castings. But that was before we dared to ask the permission to take pictures !
A different world, as I told you
It seems like their business model was good, since it is now a real manufacturer of its own, together with a well established Deckel machines rebuilder.
FPS machines have already been discussed here, but we did visit the plant where they are assembled and saw them in flesh so to speak. These are brand new machines, built from 100% new castings made in Germany.
That's a whole different world from the crowded environment at Singer's. Brand new buildings, vast halls, extremely clear and perfectly organized workspace... Young people working in small groups here and there (apprentices may be).
Could have been a commercial, except this was for true !
A bit like visiting Friedrich Deckel factory in 2015...
Never forget where you're coming from...
Castings, castings, castings... I don't know for sure on this picture because the plant also rebuilds older machines, but for their new line, FPS use brand new castings and made in Germany... I've seen shelves and shelves covered with those castings. But that was before we dared to ask the permission to take pictures !
A different world, as I told you
And always, parts, parts, parts... Screws, bevel gears, nuts of all kinds, gears... We were told that for their rebuildings, FPS only keep the castings and replaces everything with brand new parts.
Peter explained me -I can more or less understand german- that FPS have a machining shop in another location, where all the machining is done... That one I'd like to visit too !!!!!!
Peter explained me -I can more or less understand german- that FPS have a machining shop in another location, where all the machining is done... That one I'd like to visit too !!!!!!
AlfaGTA
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
Nice photos....great text with the exception that i would like to have the photos of the two involved labeled....
Like which photo is Peter and which snap is "T"....gotta put faces with the names .
Cheers Ross
Like which photo is Peter and which snap is "T"....gotta put faces with the names .
Cheers Ross
Quite simple Ross... So far, all the pics are from me. Peter was too busy keeping our hosts busy so as I could spy everywhere at will...
Another indication is Peter is the "capuccino guy"
Peter from Holland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2005
- Location
- The Netherlands
Mr Smid our host at FPS told me they do rebuild about 300 Deckels a year and make about 120 of their new machines
Also CNC machines are produced now
I have been here before a couple of years ago and noticed a substantional increase in activity Much more people working
Young guys scraping and assembling machines Much mpre machines around
We did discus wheather the US would be a market for FPS Mr Smid explained to me there were to many differences between EU and US regulations So a US machine would be much different from EU machine So sorry guys,no FPS machines in the near future on your side of the lake
Tien may think he is safe but I have some pics of him doing his favorit thing Taking pictures
Also some of the "cave" where he has his hidden his machines in Even some of him and his wife cooking No worries Tien I will not post all
peter from holland
Also CNC machines are produced now
I have been here before a couple of years ago and noticed a substantional increase in activity Much more people working
Young guys scraping and assembling machines Much mpre machines around
We did discus wheather the US would be a market for FPS Mr Smid explained to me there were to many differences between EU and US regulations So a US machine would be much different from EU machine So sorry guys,no FPS machines in the near future on your side of the lake
Tien may think he is safe but I have some pics of him doing his favorit thing Taking pictures
Also some of the "cave" where he has his hidden his machines in Even some of him and his wife cooking No worries Tien I will not post all
peter from holland
sneebot
Stainless
- Joined
- May 14, 2001
- Location
- Massachusetts
Impressive, this is far more than I would have guessed.
wrench
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2002
- Location
- Sunnyvale, CA
Is there a way I can just 'like' everything in this entire post! 
This is all very very interesting... I find it amazing that FPS has not only managed to survive rebuilding machines, but has actually thrived to the extent that they clearly can produce new ones too. I would not have thought that there would have been a market sufficient enough for them to execute as successfully as they obviously have. So, kudos to them! Pretty neat stuff....
I am also surprised that the requirements for US vs. Europe would be so dramatically different. Did they elaborate on that? Finally, do you have any pricing on the rebuilt or new machines? It seems like most of the things they are rebuilding are all very late model machines. Singer had some older FP1 type mills, but FPS all seems to be pretty late, larger units..... One thing that seems to be missing at FPS is any activity on accessories for the mills. Did you see any of that? (Singer had more but I don't recall much on the rebuild side there...) My guess is that once CNC came into play, a lot of the cool accessories for the manual machines may have become obsolete (?).
Alan
Alan
This is all very very interesting... I find it amazing that FPS has not only managed to survive rebuilding machines, but has actually thrived to the extent that they clearly can produce new ones too. I would not have thought that there would have been a market sufficient enough for them to execute as successfully as they obviously have. So, kudos to them! Pretty neat stuff....I am also surprised that the requirements for US vs. Europe would be so dramatically different. Did they elaborate on that? Finally, do you have any pricing on the rebuilt or new machines? It seems like most of the things they are rebuilding are all very late model machines. Singer had some older FP1 type mills, but FPS all seems to be pretty late, larger units..... One thing that seems to be missing at FPS is any activity on accessories for the mills. Did you see any of that? (Singer had more but I don't recall much on the rebuild side there...) My guess is that once CNC came into play, a lot of the cool accessories for the manual machines may have become obsolete (?).
Alan
Alan
Peter
From the very moment you'll post a picture of my wife on this thread, none of all these old dudes will listen to the story we have to tell them anymore !
You will see their interest for old iron vanish instantly...
Peter from Holland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2005
- Location
- The Netherlands
Alan
Just like all posts if you like Tien would like that
The US has some different electric regulations I guess but perhaps it is also the 60 Hz issue
And if they sell what they can make no need for export to the US
and they need to hire a lawyer then
BTW I cannot invision a American paying 55000USD for a manual machine There are cheaper ones
Price for the smaller new FPS machine is about €50000 if I recall correctly
Tien correct me if I am wrong You know I have a bad memory The bigger one would be €60000 and some I guess
The rebuild machines arn`t that much cheaper I also guess
Much of there customers are the educational and research institutes They have their old Deckels rebuild by FPS
I also did send mr Schmid of FPS a link so if he reads this I invite him to correct me
You are right about the accessories I guess For those you need Singer
Peter from Holland
Just like all posts if you like Tien would like that
The US has some different electric regulations I guess but perhaps it is also the 60 Hz issue
And if they sell what they can make no need for export to the US
and they need to hire a lawyer then
BTW I cannot invision a American paying 55000USD for a manual machine There are cheaper ones
Price for the smaller new FPS machine is about €50000 if I recall correctly
Tien correct me if I am wrong You know I have a bad memory The bigger one would be €60000 and some I guess
The rebuild machines arn`t that much cheaper I also guess
Much of there customers are the educational and research institutes They have their old Deckels rebuild by FPS
I also did send mr Schmid of FPS a link so if he reads this I invite him to correct me
You are right about the accessories I guess For those you need Singer
Peter from Holland
Peter from Holland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2005
- Location
- The Netherlands
wrench
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2002
- Location
- Sunnyvale, CA
I can't imagine the 50/60Hz thing would be much of an issue... That is just a legend change on the speed dials. The electronics on all these machines will likely care less. If they are being driven with a switching power supply (likely), then they'll probably handle anything from 80VAC to 400VAC, regardless of frequency. So, my guess is that the issue is more in the type of certification. We have UL here and I'm not sure if there is reciprocity with the European equivalent (CE ?)... But your comment about demand is well founded. If FPS is happy with their volume and they don't have the capacity to do more then you are right, it doesn't make sense for them to think about the North American market.
And, on a different front, American are probably way too cheap for this fine European stuff. Heck, we even ran Bridgeport into bankruptcy and their stuff was certainly a lot less (although I must admit that I don't know what the going new rate is for a standard Bridgeport).
So, did you get a feeling for the competitive feeling between FPS and Singer? Are they "friends", "mortal enemies", etc? Clearly they have some overlapping business interests....
And on the Tien side... Now I'm wondering why the he spends so much time in his man cave!!!! And if the newer readers don't understand that comment, go back and search for some of his older photos. I think he literally has a cave for his workshop. Whenever I look at my 1957 tract home I think about those stunning photos, and, well, I'm envious!!!! He is one guy I'd love to visit on a trip to France!!!
Alan
And, on a different front, American are probably way too cheap for this fine European stuff. Heck, we even ran Bridgeport into bankruptcy and their stuff was certainly a lot less (although I must admit that I don't know what the going new rate is for a standard Bridgeport).
So, did you get a feeling for the competitive feeling between FPS and Singer? Are they "friends", "mortal enemies", etc? Clearly they have some overlapping business interests....
And on the Tien side... Now I'm wondering why the he spends so much time in his man cave!!!! And if the newer readers don't understand that comment, go back and search for some of his older photos. I think he literally has a cave for his workshop. Whenever I look at my 1957 tract home I think about those stunning photos, and, well, I'm envious!!!! He is one guy I'd love to visit on a trip to France!!!
Alan
What tells us this about you then ???
It tells us this may be just about the right time to introduce...
