Is a 5C collet Chuck what I need?

[GregSY]

My 18" Whacheon lathe has my standby 8" 6 jaw Buck chuck. But, it will only hold down to about 3/16" diameter.

For time when I want to hold small items, I have chucked up an ER 16 holder and it works OK. But, it only works for relatively short pieces.

For example, I need to thread an 8" long piece of 304SS that is .093 diameter. Way too long to hold in the ER 16.

So....it looks like 5C collets will hold small stuff (down to 3/64") and have an open back so there is no length limit.

I see on Ebay a bunch of (Chinese?) cheaper chucks with a 5C / D1-6 back.

Is the 5C what I should buy or is there some better choice for small diameters?

 

[eKretz]

I use a Hardinge 5C collet chuck on my little D1-6 lathe, works pretty good. Not sure how I'd feel about the little import ones. Probably okay if you tweak them in a bit. Picture is just from when I made the backing plate adapter, checking runout.

 

[wesg]

Drill out the ER holder?

Or a hex collet block for 5C. Nowhere near as quick as a face mount 5C chuck, but a lot less physical than pulling whatever boat anchor of a 3-jaw you might have on an 18" lathe.

 

[eKretz]

Drill out the ER holder?

Or a hex collet block for 5C. Nowhere near as quick as a face mount 5C chuck, but a lot less physical than pulling whatever boat anchor of a 3-jaw you might have on an 18" lathe.

Not a bad idea either- I also have a small "chuckable" 5C collet block I made myself for use on larger lathes. I also made an adapter that threads into the collet nut with a long bar and a slide hammer for pulling dowel pins with it.

 

[johnmontrose]

Or a hex collet block for 5C.

Does the collet on those close from the front or the rear? How much of an issue would it be if it is rear-closing?

Over here, we can buy ER32 and ER 40 hex collet blocks that have the advantage of a closing nut on the front.

 

[jaguar36]

Does the collet on those close from the front or the rear? How much of an issue would it be if it is rear-closing?

I use a hex collet block when I'm in that situation. It closes from the rear so you have to take it out from the chuck whenever you need to swap parts. If I pay attention to the orientation of the block in the jaws it usually stays pretty well aligned. Certainly not as ideal as a collect chuck, but very cheap and has lots of other uses.

 

[Gordon Heaton]

I have a Bison 5C chuck that is spot-on. I've used it for nearly 20 years! DON'T count on the import collets to be any good. Some are ok, most are junk. It's not what you pay for them either. I spent several hundred dollars on an import set from a 'reputable' supplier thinking they'd be the better ones. NOT. Runout is high and many are not ground through the grip area and relieved for pass-through. You can pass at least 1" stock through a properly finished 5C. Fortunately in my case I had most of the ones I use regularly and was just trying to fill the size gaps.

 

[GregSY]

Thanks everyone. I am not sold on a Chinese chuck...but it seems when I find an old, non-Chinese chuck the seller wants a mint for it...and it's well thrashed.

 

[Overland]

Gregsy, maybe I'm wrong, not the first or last time...
But you can pass right through an ER collet, so couldn't you drill out back of holder to allow pass thru ?
Bob

 

[fciron]

I’ve got one of the Chinese chucks. It still uses a chuck key, so it’s slightly less convenient than the Sjogren type. Turned the back plate on my lathe and runout is about half a thou in the collet taper.

I got it to hold smaller squares and my cheap import collets seem to be within a couple thou. I haven’t checked it 6” out so I can’t say how well aligned they are with the lathe axis. But it was a relatively cheap and it does what I need.

 

[sfriedberg]

You can get ER collet extensions, intended for drills, which have hollow shanks. Some might have backup screws to take drill thrust, but that can be removed. By "collet extension", I mean there's an ER taper and closing nut on one end, and a straight shank for the other end.

 

[GregSY]

Well, I feel kinda stupid...I looked at my ER16 collet holder (which is the type of extender mentioned above) and it is hollow. It had some little plastic plug in it but it was easy to drive out....I'm surprised it stayed in as long as it did.

I'd still like a real chuck, though. Maybe I'll keep an eye on Ebay. It looks like the D1-4 and D1-5 are a lot more common than D1-6.

 

[winger]

I bought an inexpensive 5c scroll chuck, direct mount. Appearance wise it looked good but Multiply the stated tolerance by 4. Got my money back but I think I ended up paying shipping back.
Everything seemed too soft to be worth reworking it. Can't remember who I bought it from though. Might have been CDCO.
I ended up making an er 32 collet holder that direct mounted. This is for my home shop so I can live with it being soft, made from 4140 pht.

Dave

 

[jackalope]

Well, I feel kinda stupid...I looked at my ER16 collet holder (which is the type of extender mentioned above) and it is hollow. It had some little plastic plug in it but it was easy to drive out....I'm surprised it stayed in as long as it did.

I'd still like a real chuck, though. Maybe I'll keep an eye on Ebay. It looks like the D1-4 and D1-5 are a lot more common than D1-6.

You will find a D1-6 far easier than D1-5. Just be patient and keep it in a saved search and it’ll pop up. I have. Two Sjogren Hardinge speed chucks but one is L1 and the other is D1-8 and both are 3J collets. Been trying to sell for a longgggg time. They came with the Plain back 5C Sjogren which I made a backplate for my D1-5 Nardini spindle

 

[Gordon Heaton]

ER's are fine for some stuff, but if you need to grip on a small section that doesn't pass through the collet, they don't work. With a 5C you can grip on 1/8" if you need to.

 

[MrWhoopee]

I don't believe I saw anyone mention a split bushing. If this is a one-time job it's the simplest, quickest and cheapest solution.

Also, I have to assume this piece of .093" stock is being threaded with a die. Runout any significant distance from the holding device is academic. For that matter, hold the die in the chuck and the stock with a drill chuck in the tailstock.

For more general solutions, I'm a 5c guy myself, but I'm not a fan of the chuck-key closure. Seems a spindle-nose ER chuck would be better assuming pass-thru capability.

 

[gustafson]

I bought a Sjogren 5C brand new some 30 years ago and I think by butt still hurts, they don't give those away
When no one is looking some guys will chuck up a hex collet block in the lathe for not fussy stuff. Easier than huffing that chuck off
I dislike ER in the lathe as they start losing concentricity when you have very short grip where a 5 c won't

 

[GregSY]

From what I can tell, some chucks use a scroll/key to tighten and the Sjogren's use a hammer-wheel. Is the Sjogren method preferred?

 

[Nmbmxer]

Make a long draw tube like you’d use with typical 5c spindle adapter but use it with the collet block held in your chuck. A little harder to reach on a lathe your size but still manageable.

 

[eKretz]

From what I can tell, some chucks use a scroll/key to tighten and the Sjogren's use a hammer-wheel. Is the Sjogren method preferred?

Hardinge/Sjogren don't use a hammer wheel, it's a planetary gear reduced setup. JacobsFlex rubber collet chucks use the hammer setup.