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Is SW CAM / CAMWorks as clunky and useless as it looks?

I'm gonna take some screenshots and video comparing the two (CAMworks and HSMWorks). Maybe we can come to an agreement on stuff and help some others out as well. If CAMWorks is better integrated I'll switch over without hesitation.

Who knows maybe there are some config setting to make things cleaner.


I'll post some stuff to the thread.
 
Mastercam in the 90's was fast and efficient to use. It's industrial software; it shouldn't be designed around eye candy and the latest Microsoft UI trends. When MS came out with their ribbon, they produced an applications guide to go along with it, which described Mastercam (and all CADCAM) to a T as the kind of software that SHOULD NOT use the ribbon. Too many functions, workflows that require frequent switching between modes, etc.

Windows 7 Ribbons - Win32 apps | Microsoft Docs

Incorrect:

cmd-ribbons-image2.png


So because Microsoft said so, all CAD/CAM should follow their recommendations on how a software is developed? I think that would be a matter of opinion based on the individual programmer and what they prefer. Which would go along with where I’ve said when finding a CAD/CAM software you should try as many as you can within reason to find out what the individual is more comfortable with.

At the end of the day it comes down to what the individual program can take a file and create a program with efficiently themselves. I find this to be the same with all software, Adobe Illustrator vs Corel, iPhone vs Samsung, PlayStation vs xBox, at the end of the day they essentially do the same thing. What you see on the screen is the difference.
 
I'm gonna take some screenshots and video comparing the two (CAMworks and HSMWorks). Maybe we can come to an agreement on stuff and help some others out as well. If CAMWorks is better integrated I'll switch over without hesitation.

Who knows maybe there are some config setting to make things cleaner.


I'll post some stuff to the thread.

I think the most important thing for someone to realize when selecting a CAM software is that one is not better than the next for everyone, they need to find what they are comfortable with. I see so many times on forums or Facebook pages a question asked "What is the best CAM software" and people just comment on what they use without any reasoning. Just because XXXX works for you, doesn't mean it works for me.
 
I think the most important thing for someone to realize when selecting a CAM software is that one is not better than the next for everyone, they need to find what they are comfortable with. I see so many times on forums or Facebook pages a question asked "What is the best CAM software" and people just comment on what they use without any reasoning. Just because XXXX works for you, doesn't mean it works for me.

But at 5-20k per seat for a CAM package, or a 30 day learning cycle, that's not really feasible for most folks, especially small shops.

For small or startup shops, it comes down to how much bang for the buck can I get from the get go with this, which is what drives people to Fusion360 (not a fan of their CAD), or solidworks (great CAD, with some CAM served on the side).
 
But at 5-20k per seat for a CAM package, or a 30 day learning cycle, that's not really feasible for most folks, especially small shops.

For small or startup shops, it comes down to how much bang for the buck can I get from the get go with this, which is what drives people to Fusion360 (not a fan of their CAD), or solidworks (great CAD, with some CAM served on the side).

I am a one man shop, located on my home property and went with CAMWorks. It was why I shopped around also, spending that much was tough to do, but at the end of the day the $12k I spent upfront for SW/CW package IMO was totally worth it. It's essentially the foundation of every part that comes out of my machines, if the start of every part is a struggle with a cheaper CAM package, are you losing or saving money?
 
I am a one man shop, located on my home property and went with CAMWorks. It was why I shopped around also, spending that much was tough to do, but at the end of the day the $12k I spent upfront for SW/CW package IMO was totally worth it. It's essentially the foundation of every part that comes out of my machines, if the start of every part is a struggle with a cheaper CAM package, are you losing or saving money?

I've done my share of shopping around too. Every single CAM software I've seen is using the ribbon as the primary interface.

Microsoft came out with a new tool, and said "Hey, we acknowledge this isn't for every use case, but it might be good for certain lightweight applications like photo viewers etc." The UI team at every CAM software said "OMG! Microsoft made a new interface! This is the future! We HAVE to use it!" with zero consideration to how much slower and more difficult it would make the use of the software.

Find me ONE modern, fully developed, 5 axis capable CAM system that still uses drop-down menus as the primary interface. I stayed with X9 because trying to do anything in 2017 or newer takes ten times as long. I forced myself to do a multi-day project in 2021 a while ago, and at every turn it made me want to smash my screen with my keyboard.
 
I've done my share of shopping around too. Every single CAM software I've seen is using the ribbon as the primary interface.

Microsoft came out with a new tool, and said "Hey, we acknowledge this isn't for every use case, but it might be good for certain lightweight applications like photo viewers etc." The UI team at every CAM software said "OMG! Microsoft made a new interface! This is the future! We HAVE to use it!" with zero consideration to how much slower and more difficult it would make the use of the software.

Find me ONE modern, fully developed, 5 axis capable CAM system that still uses drop-down menus as the primary interface. I stayed with X9 because trying to do anything in 2017 or newer takes ten times as long. I forced myself to do a multi-day project in 2021 a while ago, and at every turn it made me want to smash my screen with my keyboard.

So YOU are upset these CAM companies that didn't listen to Microsoft and because you aren't efficient with them and it takes YOU ten times longer, its bad software......got it
 
Personally I am stoked that this discussion is going on. Gives me a chance to hopefully help someone else make a decision on an expensive piece of software and learn some stuff on the way.

If a few of us dedicated a bit of effort we could help clear the air for many.
 
So YOU are upset these CAM companies that didn't listen to Microsoft and because you aren't efficient with them and it takes YOU ten times longer, its bad software......got it

I'm not upset that they didn't listen to Microsoft, I'm upset that they didn't listen to their userbase. I alpha tested the ribbon interface, and told the development team that it looked like it might be easier for brand new users, but would be much slower and more difficult for longtime power users. They rejoiced, that was exactly what they were going for.

I'm far from alone in my opinion. I personally know a lot of people who quit using Mastercam over this issue, yet CNC Software lied to my face and said I was the only one who didn't love it. Those I know who continue to use recent releases of Mastercam have heavily customized interfaces to circumvent the ribbon, including in some cases custom programmed additional layers over the interface.
 
Personally I am stoked that this discussion is going on. Gives me a chance to hopefully help someone else make a decision on an expensive piece of software and learn some stuff on the way.

If a few of us dedicated a bit of effort we could help clear the air for many.

For sure! That's why I always comment and get involved when someone asks questions about CAM, it would absolutely suck to spend $5-20k on software to find out 3 months down the road you absolutely hate it.
 
I'm not upset that they didn't listen to Microsoft, I'm upset that they didn't listen to their userbase. I alpha tested the ribbon interface, and told the development team that it looked like it might be easier for brand new users, but would be much slower and more difficult for longtime power users. They rejoiced, that was exactly what they were going for.

I'm far from alone in my opinion. I personally know a lot of people who quit using Mastercam over this issue, yet CNC Software lied to my face and said I was the only one who didn't love it. Those I know who continue to use recent releases of Mastercam have heavily customized interfaces to circumvent the ribbon, including in some cases custom programmed additional layers over the interface.

I hear ya, everyone I know that is or was a MasterCam user complained about the changes in 2017, seemed like a majority of the userbase disliked it. Like you said, its probably one of them things new users catch on to quicker. I just saw CAMWorks had some new tool feature added in 2022 and I questioned it, and was told something similar "we received a lot of feed back to have this implemented" WHO is giving this feed back and why wasn't I asked, response was "I'm not sure where they collect the feedback from"

I own another business, its a salon, and we have some salon based POS software. They have a awesome user base feedback system. Anyone can share a enhancement request and it essentially has a voting system, if it receives X amount of votes by the users, it gets implemented. I think CAM companies need something similar to actually get real users feedback, requests and ideas. I can send in an enhancement request to CAMWorks, but some of the developers tell me I'm not suppose to and I need to go through my VAR and they'll determine if its a good enough enhancement, which is ridiculous. Us programmers use the software daily, not someone sitting at an office, and yes some were machinist and know a thing or two, but after 4-8 years away from a machine, things change and IMO you aren't capable of determining what's a good enhancement or not vs someone that uses the software daily.
 
Personally I am stoked that this discussion is going on. Gives me a chance to hopefully help someone else make a decision on an expensive piece of software and learn some stuff on the way.

If a few of us dedicated a bit of effort we could help clear the air for many.

If you want to share a model, I'm open to program the same part and do some comparing.
 
I am a one man shop, located on my home property and went with CAMWorks. It was why I shopped around also, spending that much was tough to do, but at the end of the day the $12k I spent upfront for SW/CW package IMO was totally worth it. It's essentially the foundation of every part that comes out of my machines, if the start of every part is a struggle with a cheaper CAM package, are you losing or saving money?

I'm not calling the investment into question, just that its hard for most to invest that amount of time or money into evaluating each option extensively.
 
I'm not calling the investment into question, just that its hard for most to invest that amount of time or money into evaluating each option extensively.

I think within a few days of a trial you can get a feel for if you are going to like the software or not. I said it earlier in this post, if you do the research and find out maybe the top two CAM someone is comparing license the same tool paths from the same company, knowing that behind the scenes its generating the same tool path, you can look at options slightly different.

It came down to sticking with CAMWorks or switching to NX for me. When I see Siemens and CAMWorks both listed on ModuleWorks as licensing partners. ModuleWorks being the 3-5 axis tool paths. It came down to comfortability and experience to stick with CAMWorks, I do think NX is a far superior product and their integration is better and have a few features that would be nice to have, but at the end of the day for me it wasn't worth paying more and essentially relearning a new software.
 
I didn't know it was originally designed into SW in addition to being the first.

Yep and it was done here in AZ, it's origins started with Teksoft CAM.

the second CAM software to run in SW is SolidCAM and they have an Inventor version too
 
But at 5-20k per seat for a CAM package, or a 30 day learning cycle, that's not really feasible for most folks, especially small shops.

For small or startup shops, it comes down to how much bang for the buck can I get from the get go with this, which is what drives people to Fusion360 (not a fan of their CAD), or solidworks (great CAD, with some CAM served on the side).

Is 5-20K really that expensive for small shops? I am building a tombstone that is going to cost up 20k. I just ordered a form cutter that will cost $1800 to make. This form cutter will replace 5 tools. We just bought 4 Kurt vises at around $500 a piece.
 
Is 5-20K really that expensive for small shops? I am building a tombstone that is going to cost up 20k. I just ordered a form cutter that will cost $1800 to make. This form cutter will replace 5 tools. We just bought 4 Kurt vises at around $500 a piece.

"small shop" now a days seems to be such a wide range of size for "small". I consider my shop small, I am a one man shop, I have a VF2SS, VF3SS, BridgePort Ez Trak and some other supporting equipment in a 1800 square foot shop on my home property. I worked for a "small" shop years ago that had 4 employees and were doing 2-3 million annually. Then you have the guy in his 1 car garage running a Bridgeport or HAAS Tool Room.....where do you draw the line for "small" shops.

For me, $12k for CAMWorks upfront wasn't much of a problem and the annual maintenance at $3600 isn't much either, its not even 1% of my annual sales. I can easily justify that by the money I get for my scrap.

Maybe for that guy running in a 1 car garage its expensive, but for the shops that use CAM daily to support their machines, you should be able to justify the cost. Annually its one of my lowest overhead expenses in comparison to tooling, material, finishing, I spend more on shipping and local courier costs.
 
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Alright as promised a video of programming a simple part in HSMWorks. Whenever I do this sort of stuff I gain a bit more respect for all the YouTubers out there making it look easy.

Focus here was showing workflow, not optimization of feed/speeds, cutting time, etc. Hope this makes it clear about the points I was making about integration into the SolidWorks UI.

https://screencast.autodesk.com/Embed/Timeline/a307e5ad-c460-46e3-a9ba-181c52e90bd8

Full disclosure: I was using CAMWorks yesterday and understand the power and speed with which parts could be programmed when time is spent tuning the cut database. I am gonna spend some time optimizing a few of the toolpaths to see how refined it can get. Pete reached out and is gonna share his post for his Brother so I can give it a go on the machine. Love learning new things!

If anyone wants to see anything in particular I'll be programming pretty much all day today and can do some more demos if there are requests.
 
Alright as promised a video of programming a simple part in HSMWorks. Whenever I do this sort of stuff I gain a bit more respect for all the YouTubers out there making it look easy.

Focus here was showing workflow, not optimization of feed/speeds, cutting time, etc. Hope this makes it clear about the points I was making about integration into the SolidWorks UI.

https://screencast.autodesk.com/Embed/Timeline/a307e5ad-c460-46e3-a9ba-181c52e90bd8

Full disclosure: I was using CAMWorks yesterday and understand the power and speed with which parts could be programmed when time is spent tuning the cut database. I am gonna spend some time optimizing a few of the toolpaths to see how refined it can get. Pete reached out and is gonna share his post for his Brother so I can give it a go on the machine. Love learning new things!

If anyone wants to see anything in particular I'll be programming pretty much all day today and can do some more demos if there are requests.

Can you share the model? I’ll make a similar tutorial with the same part in CAMWorks.

Also what are you using to screen record? I’ll have to get a mic too.

I think you really pointed out what a lot of people dislike right off the bat with CAMWorks, a lot of people go into it after watching YouTube videos or a reseller showing the AFR working flawlessly but don’t it’s never explained how that’s not a out of the box perfect set up and people need to understand that does take time to build that. I didn’t touch the TechDB for probably my first 10 years, I programmed pretty much exactly how you just did, selecting tools and other parameters. The last 3-5 years I’ve really invested time into my TechDB and most of it is using the “Set as default” button after I’ve defined my parameters to my likening.
 








 
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