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It's Finally Time for CAD/CAM

Are you sure you know how to use Hypermill? :) I program HM every day including F1 jobs and my second CAM is NX (another F1 team). I can only say there is no way you will get cleaner toolpaths in a shorter time than Hypermill - especially for 5x. What's about roughing: Hypermill is using the same "Volumill" engine what NX or OneCNC - who put the benchmark years ago on the market introducing these amazing peel milling algorythms - how can that be bad mate? NX is beatting everything on the market regarding control and complexity but it takes time to program it.

i have a pretty damn good idea what i was doing with HM. and clean code is very situational. i have EXTENSIVE first hand experience programming and machining impellers using HM, and we went back and forth with their apps guys for almost 2 years chasing shit finish quality issues. you know what fixed it in the end? running the code through camplete and resorting the points along the toolpath. i have pictures and screenshots archived somewhere if you really want me to dig it up, but you could literally see that it would have a few points SUPER close together, then far apart, then super close again. so the control would try to keep up with accell/decel and leave minute witness marks on the surface.
roughing is a whole another issue. ya, they use Volumill engine, but they also do a lot of different things with it. i dont remember 100% correctly at the moment, but things like you werent able to do step ups if you had volumill enabled, shit/unnecessary retract moves, no way to do backfeed moves vs retract, i could go on and on...
there are some REALLY great things about hypermill, no denying that. but there's also a LOT of issues. if you have not encountered these before, i dont know what to say, maybe you're
not doing the type of geometry that brings out these issues? or i had a really buggy/fucked up version of the software. at this point i dont give a rats ass.
NX is legit AF, i have NO qualms with it. probably the best CAM package out there.
 
i have a pretty damn good idea what i was doing with HM. and clean code is very situational. i have EXTENSIVE first hand experience programming and machining impellers using HM, and we went back and forth with their apps guys for almost 2 years chasing shit finish quality issues. you know what fixed it in the end? running the code through camplete and resorting the points along the toolpath. i have pictures and screenshots archived somewhere if you really want me to dig it up, but you could literally see that it would have a few points SUPER close together, then far apart, then super close again. so the control would try to keep up with accell/decel and leave minute witness marks on the surface.

Hypermill really has no way to control that? Seems like a pretty glaring omission for a package that is so targetted towards multiax simultaneous...

My lowly featurecam has multiple options to control point spacing, distribution and filtering on multiaxis paths...
 
Hypermill really has no way to control that? Seems like a pretty glaring omission for a package that is so targetted towards multiax simultaneous...

My lowly featurecam has multiple options to control point spacing, distribution and filtering on multiaxis paths...

nope! the only variable you can control is the MAX point spacing, but not min. which is useless, as if it doesnt spread them out evenly, it'll do exactly what i experienced.
 
Are you sure you know how to use Hypermill? :) I program HM every day including F1 jobs and my second CAM is NX (another F1 team). I can only say there is no way you will get cleaner toolpaths in a shorter time than Hypermill - especially for 5x. What's about roughing: Hypermill is using the same "Volumill" engine what NX or OneCNC - who put the benchmark years ago on the market introducing these amazing peel milling algorythms - how can that be bad mate? NX is beatting everything on the market regarding control and complexity but it takes time to program it.

i can PM you the names of the apps guys i worked with on this issue as well as the regional manager. none of them had a solution to the problem. the company i worked for at the time ended up getting a refund for the software because they couldnt fix the problem.
 
nope! the only variable you can control is the MAX point spacing, but not min. which is useless, as if it doesnt spread them out evenly, it'll do exactly what i experienced.

Featurecam doesn't allow you to explicitly define min. spacing either, but it does have the option of redistributing points so that they are uniformly distributed, with the actual min. spacing being algorithmically determined by other variables like max. spacing and surface tolerance. This at the toolpath level, so you can optimise the output per toolpath, rather than running the whole code through a filter.

RRp9nn9.jpg
 
Featurecam doesn't allow you to explicitly define min. spacing either, but it does have the option of redistributing points so that they are uniformly distributed, with the actual min. spacing being algorithmically determined by other variables like max. spacing and surface tolerance. This at the toolpath level, so you can optimise the output per toolpath, rather than running the whole code through a filter.

RRp9nn9.jpg

right, very similar to how mastercam does it, and it works pretty well. no such thing in hypermill.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around programming by hand for 12 years. I did that 20 years ago for punch presses but, in a modern machine shop, there is no way you can be productive or competitive unless you are in the business of making vise jaw blanks or something.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around programming by hand for 12 years. I did that 20 years ago for punch presses but, in a modern machine shop, there is no way you can be productive or competitive unless you are in the business of making vise jaw blanks or something.

In your world those may be the facts, in another's not so much, it depends a lot on the parts and how often you need programs. For instance I fingercamed one the other day and it took me 4 times the time it likely would have in Mastercam. However I will make these parts every 6 months for the rest of my days ( I'm 56 ) using this program. After some thousands of parts that half hour or so doesn't really matter, however I am keeping my math skills and a few times over the years that has come in real handy when the computer power supply died or some other stupid thing so I fingercamed what I needed and kept making parts. I have a friend in a 50 "machinist" shop and they can't program a bolt circle without their Fusion 360, many times they have sent several guys home for days sometimes as they can't do it without the cad cam period. Programming by hand can be a valuable skill now and again, that said, I am not giving up my Mastercam.
 
Well, if you want ease of use and not an insane price, I would go with OneCNC. We have been using using OneCNC for over 10 years now and it just plain works. Not complicated, solid and easy to learn. In my opinion most CAD/CAM systems today are overly complicated and filled with options you will likely never use. However, you end up paying for all these unnecessary features. Plus, don't forget most of these companies will jack you over with service fees.

I have never had to pay for technical support, post processors, post processor edits or training. Just my opinion.
 
In your world those may be the facts, in another's not so much, it depends a lot on the parts and how often you need programs. For instance I fingercamed one the other day and it took me 4 times the time it likely would have in Mastercam. However I will make these parts every 6 months for the rest of my days ( I'm 56 ) using this program. After some thousands of parts that half hour or so doesn't really matter, however I am keeping my math skills and a few times over the years that has come in real handy when the computer power supply died or some other stupid thing so I fingercamed what I needed and kept making parts. I have a friend in a 50 "machinist" shop and they can't program a bolt circle without their Fusion 360, many times they have sent several guys home for days sometimes as they can't do it without the cad cam period. Programming by hand can be a valuable skill now and again, that said, I am not giving up my Mastercam.

I don’t hand program too often anymore, but I’ve worked at a few shops where some parts, jobs were just quicker and easier to do right at the machine rather than walk into the CAD/CAM room, draw some basic features (if I didn’t have a model) and create the tool paths, walk out, tell the machine to receive the program and walk back and forth.

I’m glad I took the time to learn how to even if I don’t do it often, I like being able to watch my screen and know what’s going on, it helped me fully understand the G & M code.

I’ve worked at shops where programmers/set up guys couldn’t tell you what any of the G or M code actually meant, if for some odd reason there’s a bad code, they couldn’t for the life of them figure it out, they would just change a setting and repost and hope it “fixed itself”

I still find value in the old school ways.
 
If you work with solid models, EZ-CAM is now something to look into.


I used EZCAM in 1985 on a NEC 4 color all in one PC, used 2 8" floppies, then in 91 on V2XT and then 95-2000 for model making on both PC and MAC.

I have check them out they seem to be doing great things!

prices seem very reasonable
 
Hi Fred:

I'm using TopSolid 7 here for design work and 3 & 4 axis mill programming....did you have any particular questions/comments?

Cheers!
yes specifically for five axis milling on DMG DMU mills
i know it can do a lot but any chance you'd know?
 
yes specifically for five axis milling on DMG DMU mills
i know it can do a lot but any chance you'd know?
Hi Fred,

I have a DMU 65. I program it with TopSolid 7. It works well. I would be willing to do a screen share and show you some stuff if you’d like. I will send you a PM
 
What type of parts are you making in your mill? And are you 3D profiling? Or just more complex 2D shapes that make hand programming a pain?
I'd have Mastercam give you a basic quote for their entry Mill package. I think it's less than $4-5k???
On the Okuma lathes as you probably already know, using the IGF will get you 99.99% of any lathe part you desire. We have 10 lathes and I only have to give them a program for some complex groove maybe once every 2 years or so, meaning you probably wouldn't need the lathe package of Mastercam.
Don't forget to add the $5000 post. And the $5000 convenience fee. And another $5000 for the extra super special fee. And another $5000 for the Byte Recycling Offset fee......
 
I got a quote for MasterCAM in 2020 for our Okuma Multus. It was over $40K. I do recall quite a few additional charges. One I remember specifically was $500 to install the software. I had an RFQ out to 8 or 9 software vendors and that was the most expensive, and the one with the most add on expenses of them all. I didn't even bother with a demo. They priced themselves out of contention.
 
I got a quote for MasterCAM in 2020 for our Okuma Multus. It was over $40K. I do recall quite a few additional charges. One I remember specifically was $500 to install the software. I had an RFQ out to 8 or 9 software vendors and that was the most expensive, and the one with the most add on expenses of them all. I didn't even bother with a demo. They priced themselves out of contention.
Yeah, that's a millturn. Mastercam technically has a millturn product, but from what I hear you don't want it. I bet they had $10k for the post. Which software did you go with, and do you like it?
 








 
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