Jones & Shipman 540 Grinder Questions

[DeleteFromUsers]

Open the panel to the left of the crossfeed handle. The connecting rod that operates the crossfeed ratchet is in there on a T slotted rotor. Atjust to the feed you need (in 7thou steps because that's what the ratchet does).

Holy smokes it works! I had no idea that was a panel! Thanks so much for your help. You've saved me many many hours.

I asked for a manual from Hardinge so they sent me manuals for every 540 model except the P. Now that I look at the CP manual, it's actually there. I just assumed that feature wasn't on my machine because that panel has no indication that it can be opened. Oy...

Thanks again. Mucho appreciated!

 

[mescotc]

Jones & Shipman 540 Spindle Taper ??

Hi Friends,

could anyone on the forum help me find the size of taper for spindle for J&S 540 AP ?

I need to make an xtra wheel mounting flange , and need to grind and check taper on the mc.

thx regards,

 

[sable]

Hi Friends,

could anyone on the forum help me find the size of taper for spindle for J&S 540 AP ?

I need to make an xtra wheel mounting flange , and need to grind and check taper on the mc.

thx regards,

If you have a flange already I would use that to grind a guage in order to make the flange. the taper is not likely to be a standard like morse.

 

[mescotc]

The existing flange, that came with the mc , is not an original one, although its fits ok , replicating the same wouldn't be a right way .

Finding taper size is the way...

 

[adama]

Spoko, you can buy em cheaper than you can make em :-) Dimensions on there site too, there very much a std on the 540 machine!

 

[barryt]

Hi,

Could anyone tell me if they have had problems with their 540 leaking hydraulic oil both out of the handle on the y traverse and also seems to be leaking out of the tank where the hydraulic oil is, looks like the chain is carrying it over the guard and splashing out on the ground, is the chain too slack or does these chains and sprockets need to be replaced and tensioned? Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Mark Rand]

I don't know about the oil pump chain, because I've got a 1400 that has a different pump arrangement, but leakage around the Z traverse handle is common with age. There's a fairly large, but standard sized, oil seal behind the handle that 'gets old.

While you're checking that, check the bellows at the rear end of the Z feed screw, they can fall apart and lead to leakage as well. The oil seals are all off the shelf Imperial-sized ones, The gaskets, of needed are brown paper and can be made to suit. The bellows is a specific J&S part, but not expensive. You might be able to substitute a suitably sized motorcycle fork gaiter at a pinch. They were very helpful when I phoned them several years ago.


PS, Y is up and down on a surface grinder, Z is back and front.

 

[adama]

FYI on my 540 theres no hydraulic feed to the Z axis handle area, I think its another difference between the models Mark! Theres 2 nipples - points in the handle if you oil the oil nipple in the middle of it, given time it leaks out as most british machines do onto the bottom of the z feed handle - dial. I don't think theres any bellows on the screw either, because its already hidden inside the machine - not visible from the top with the saddle moved forwards.

Oil pump chain should be high enough up its not in the oil bath!! Unless the vibration mounts have failed dropping the motor and pump into the sump - or the tanks too full!!! Chains lubed by a little pipe dripping oil on it from the hydrulic pump. It only needs a drip to keep it damp not a spray!! Theres a little valve on the pump to set this. You need to cheack the hoses too, theres 3 hoses from memory, they could well be past it by now!

 

[aboard_epsilon]

it's been a few year since I pulled mine apart

one or two things I noticed ...or maybe forgot ..

1. The waste oil return (not the pump) but the spill return has a tube bolted onto the end of it, that directs it into a mesh filter ..this is directional and should be present.
2. This is very grainy in my mind .think the chain has an oiler that you can adjust ..too much oil will fling everywhere, really not sure about this but think there is a small valve to adjust the oil ......or you can direct the oil with something.

Some parts up top are designed to leak and excess is directed into a return pipe via troughs and passages, the troughs are designed to catch the spillage and let the dust settle out into them, they then overflow and drain back into the system.

all the best.markj

 

[barryt]

Thanks guys, Adama was right, the vibration mounts have failed and has dropped the motor and pump into the tank, anyone know where I could source these parts or even the dimensions of them??

 

[aboard_epsilon]

Thanks guys, Adama was right, the vibration mounts have failed and has dropped the motor and pump into the tank, anyone know where I could source these parts or even the dimensions of them??

Believe it or not Jones and shipmen themselves are very reasonable on their prices.
wouldn't surprise me if they were less than a tenner from them.

what you going to be hit with in Ireland is the postage, I hear it's expensive to Ireland but cheap to Northern Ireland

There is another supplier, but they are more expensive than Jones and shipmen

all the best.markj

 

[adama]

Jones and shipman, other option, there just a std bonded rubber vibration mount, avalible off the shelf - mail order from a lot of diffrent place for sub £5 each.

If the tanks gone, good chance you need to do the spindle motor ones too, there a right bitch to get too but its the time whilst the tanks out!

 

[harjonmfg]

I just picked up a j&s 540. It seems to work pretty good. The back lash of the cross feed hand wheel kindof flops around when you engage the auto-crossfeed and it leaks fluid here and there but none of that really concerns me.

The one thing that does concern me, I'm not even sure is actually a problem. At the end of each stroke of the table traverse, the table doesn't dwell. In the operators manual, the little lever all the way to the left that engages the cross feed crank is called the "Dwell control and cross feed cut-out". Before I even touched the machine, when I read that, it seemed to imply to me that the table traverse is supposed to dwell at the end of each stroke so that the cross feed has time to do its thing. After all, that's how I do it when I'm using a grinder with no power feeds..

Suspicious that I'm just expected to set the dogs farther apart to give the cross feed more time, I watched all the youtube videos of 540's. Many of them, like mine, have no dwell. They instantly change direction. However, some of them do dwell and this smoother operation seems preferable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYmKkvDKnYY

Am I wrong? If not, does anyone know if there is an adjustment for this or something I'm overlooking? Or do I just have to start tearing things apart..

 

[aboard_epsilon]

I just picked up a j&s 540. It seems to work pretty good. The back lash of the cross feed hand wheel kindof flops around when you engage the auto-crossfeed and it leaks fluid here and there but none of that really concerns me.

The one thing that does concern me, I'm not even sure is actually a problem. At the end of each stroke of the table traverse, the table doesn't dwell. In the operators manual, the little lever all the way to the left that engages the cross feed crank is called the "Dwell control and cross feed cut-out". Before I even touched the machine, when I read that, it seemed to imply to me that the table traverse is supposed to dwell at the end of each stroke so that the cross feed has time to do its thing. After all, that's how I do it when I'm using a grinder with no power feeds..

Suspicious that I'm just expected to set the dogs farther apart to give the cross feed more time, I watched all the youtube videos of 540's. Many of them, like mine, have no dwell. They instantly change direction. However, some of them do dwell and this smoother operation seems preferable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYmKkvDKnYY

Am I wrong? If not, does anyone know if there is an adjustment for this or something I'm overlooking? Or do I just have to start tearing things apart..

The lever should allow you to alter this, it alters the smoothness in changing / transition from one direction to another (it does not make it sit there for a period of time as the name dwell implies)...playing around with it ..should find the sweet spot.

You should never let the table travel to the ends of its travel ..the stops should always be set so that this does not happen ..as a loud clunk will be heard ..that cant do the machine any good!....it also exposes the underside the table to contamination from grinding dust.

The oil leaks are normal ......unless it's squirting from the ends of the ram.
A seal kit and new piston rings are available from Jones and Shipman ..and they don't cost the earth. £15 ish if I can remember ..but that was over 10 years ago.

The other leaks are supposed to be there ..they are the oil after its done its job returning to the sump ..this is excess from the ways etc....there is also a controlled leak from under the ram to help flush the oil back into the sump.

The little catchment troths each end of the table, let the dust drop out of the oil ..before it overflows and makes its way back to the centre of the machine were it drains back.

There should be a X shaped knob offset from the centre of the large dial/wheel/traverse,that tightens onto the wheel....This knob ..sometimes will unscrew itself land on the floor and get lost....I've never had cause to tighten this knob on mine, I leave it loosely screwed up, as there is very little back lash or floppng about on mine...but I think that this knob is there for that reason.

Have a look at some pics of the 540 wheel dial ..to determine if your x shaped knob has been lost.

all the best.markj

 

[aboard_epsilon]

Oh forgot ..you can adjust the amount of oil going to the ways ....it may have been set so there is too much going up there ...there is an adjustment knob under the lower panel. on the right hand side, the panel has to be removed to get at it .

Good time to take the tank out ..and clean the gauze filter, clean the tank, change the oil ...you'll need to buy a drum of Mobil Vacuoline 1405.. 20 litre drum of it is about £48.

x shaped knob

 

[harjonmfg]

Oh forgot ..you can adjust the amount of oil going to the ways ....it may have been set so there is too much going up there ...there is an adjustment knob under the lower panel. on the right hand side, the panel has to be removed to get at it .

Good time to take the tank out ..and clean the gauze filter, clean the tank, change the oil ...you'll need to buy a drum of Mobil Vacuoline 1405.. 20 litre drum of it is about £48.

x shaped knob

Thanks. Yes I will surely get a seal kit. Most of the leaks seem to be the "normal" leaks you're speaking of. However, one side of the ram for the table traverse leaks. A few drips a minute fall out of the machine. But like I said, I don't think that's a fatal defect. Some day when I have some time, I'll clean out the tank and try to fix that leak.

That x-shaped knob you're talking about is the "Fine cross feed engaging knob"

But, are sure there is not supposed to be a dwell? I see that the lever adjusts the smoothness, or... basically how fast the crank goes around. Did you see the video that I linked? there is a distinct dwell at both ends of the traverse. Here's another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1gNs9_5Co

 

[Mark Rand]

I keep getting tripped up by the differences between the 540 and my 1400, but mine's got two small needle valves in the valve block that adjust the 'abruptness' of the stop and return of the stroke. One for each end of the stroke.

Oddly enough, they're both under little domed covers like the one shown on the panel of the 540 in front of the direction control. Is there a combined adjuster under that cover on the 540???

 

[harjonmfg]

I keep getting tripped up by the differences between the 540 and my 1400, but mine's got two small needle valves in the valve block that adjust the 'abruptness' of the stop and return of the stroke. One for each end of the stroke.

Oddly enough, they're both under little domed covers like the one shown on the panel of the 540 in front of the direction control. Is there a combined adjuster under that cover on the 540???

I think you might be on to something there. But, I don't know that cover you're talking about. Little domed covers?

 

[adama]

No Mark, another difference, its all done by that little lever on the top!! Despite visually being similar, and one sort a a big brother, there sure is one hell of a lot of differences we have found over the years here :-)

The dwell is basicaly down to how fast you let that rotateing cross feed work, valve fully open its quick and theres no dwell to speak of - the crank turns fast! Near closed and the crank goes slow and it dwells noticably. Instructions say just adjust for a smooth reversal, ie if there a big bit on the table dont have it slam it back and forwards too fast, give it time to come to a stop and dwell a nats!! - keep it smooth movement wise

Oil leaks have one other cause on a 540, the machine needs to be level!!! If its not you will get oil leakage from one end only, level and it drains back to the sump from the ways under the table - the two little end catch bits. Ram would have to be leaking bad for the catch bits to over flow.

 

[sameworks]

Hi
Can you send me in pdf format a J&S 540 manual?Appreciated if you do, cause its hard to find here.
Regards
Peter Sarantis
SAMEWORKS MACHINE SHOP
e-mail:[email protected]