K&T 2HL Rehab Project

[MyLilMule]

Getting a little closer to being able to run this machine again.

 

[MyLilMule]

Glad to have the feed unit back in this little machine. Not without issues, mostly my fault, but it's in and working.

 

[imported_eric_h]

I am looking at a K and T 2HL plain at the moment...seems to be in good condition from pics. I am reading this thread gleaning all the info i can. I don't think it has the high speed mill head on it but the thread on how to mount the high speed head i found interesting and something i am curious on how this mounts up correctly. If it isn't indeed a high speed head i assume u can just mount to overarms and then tighten to column and the gear meshing is set. Not sure if u have to do something where u raise or lower the head a little to get proper mesh of drive gear.

 

[ramsay1]

I am looking at a K and T 2HL plain at the moment...seems to be in good condition from pics. I am reading this thread gleaning all the info i can. I don't think it has the high speed mill head on it but the thread on how to mount the high speed head i found interesting and something i am curious on how this mounts up correctly. If it isn't indeed a high speed head i assume u can just mount to overarms and then tighten to column and the gear meshing is set. Not sure if u have to doView attachment 390178 something where u raise or lower the head a little to get proper mesh of drive gear.

Look at the drive gear that plugs into the spindle.. If it has a disc on the front of it, It needs the special installation instructions...The older std hi speed heads could move away from the column via splined shaft, and they used the disc on the drive/driven gear to maintain proper backlash of the gear teeth... Cheers from Louisiana... Ramsay 1

 

[Ohio Mike]

I am looking at a K and T 2HL plain at the moment...seems to be in good condition from pics. I am reading this thread gleaning all the info i can. I don't think it has the high speed mill head on it but the thread on how to mount the high speed head i found interesting and something i am curious on how this mounts up correctly. If it isn't indeed a high speed head i assume u can just mount to overarms and then tighten to column and the gear meshing is set. Not sure if u have to do something where u raise or lower the head a little to get proper mesh of drive gear.

This is a model H from the late 30s or 40s but with a later generation head and overarm support. The styling of those make me think they were from a S series machine of the 1960s. Which isn't an issue but I did think it was intesting.

 

[MyLilMule]

This is a model H from the late 30s or 40s but with a later generation head and overarm support. The styling of those make me think they were from a S series machine of the 1960s. Which isn't an issue but I did think it was intesting.

it's a 2HL. Says so right on the side. The only difference would be the size of the table.

That head does not look like my high speed universal head. And the overarm isn't right either.

I do wonder if the overarm support from any other maker (Cincinnati?) matched the dimensions of the 1H/2HL? Did later model K&Ts go back to the smaller overarms?

 

[ramsay1]

This is a model H from the late 30s or 40s but with a later generation head and overarm support. The styling of those make me think they were from a S series machine of the 1960s. Which isn't an issue but I did think it was intesting.

Correction on the vertical head.. It is a later model with the drive gear attached to the drive bracket.. 1h and 2hl are basically the same except the 1h has a smaller table.. 2h has larger table, wider column and larger overarms.. I know as I own both... Should be pretty straight forward on mounting the unit to the machine... I have enclosed pictures of the unit though the moveable quill unit it shown it is available with fixed quill as your unit is....Cheers; Ramsay 1

 

[MyLilMule]

Correction on the vertical head.. It is a later model with the drive gear attached to the drive bracket.. 1h and 2hl are basically the same except the 1h has a smaller table.. 2h has larger table, wider column and larger overarms.. I know as I own both... Should be pretty straight forward on mounting the unit to the machine... I have enclosed pictures of the unit though the moveable quill unit it shown it is available with fixed quill as your unit is....Cheers; Ramsay 1

I'm not convinced that's the same one pictured. There's no opening in front where you should see the overarms. Unless they painted them blue!

 

[ramsay1]

I'm not convinced that's the same one pictured. There's no opening in front where you should see the overarms. Unless they painted them blue!

The one pictured may be from a larger unit.. 2hl has small overarms so maybe not much to cut away..... I must admit I have not seen this type on a small mill as usually the older type is used...Ramsay 1

 

[Ohio Mike]

The one pictured may be from a larger unit.. 2hl has small overarms so maybe not much to cut away..... I must admit I have not seen this type on a small mill as usually the older type is used...Ramsay 1

Yep, parts book pub 258A shows blind holes for the overarms in bracket type "U" for these small mills. Specifically calls out as fitting mills 1CH, 103CH, 2CHL, 203CH, 18AC, 18CH, 103CHP, 24AC, 203CHP. Pretty interesting as I didn't know they even made a 103CH I don't recall seeing it in a catalog. I had kind of assumed the smaller mills had been discontinued by then.

Just for those that don't know K&T made a number of different heads of different sizes and features. Then they made different brackets for those heads for different mills. So a head of one type may fit different sizes of mills when ordered with the correct bracket.

 

[imported_eric_h]

Yep, parts book pub 258A shows blind holes for the overarms in bracket type "U" for these small mills. Specifically calls out as fitting mills 1CH, 103CH, 2CHL, 203CH, 18AC, 18CH, 103CHP, 24AC, 203CHP. Pretty interesting as I didn't know they even made a 103CH I don't recall seeing it in a catalog. I had kind of assumed the smaller mills had been discontinued by then.

Just for those that don't know K&T made a number of different heads of different sizes and features. Then they made different brackets for those heads for different mills. So a head of one type may fit different sizes of mills when ordered with the correct bracket.

OMike...are there rpm limits with this later millhead??? when the owner shot some video and the mill reached 1088 rpm the spindle ground to a halt....all lower speeds seemed fine. He claimed 'heaters' were the cause. He switched from 3 phase to single phase 3hp motor so higher amps of single phase tripped heaters set for lower amps of 3 phase. (btw imho when heaters trip everything stops and need to be reset) and hadn't adjusted the heaters for the higher amperage of the single phase motor. I have to think that this isn't the case since the motor was still running in back ground. Could it be the mill head is not a correct match for the mill? Here is a video of the spindle bog

 

[sfriedberg]

Generally when the "heaters" pop, the contactor/relay disengages entirely. You don't get a bog, but a definite power-off stop. And watching the video, it's not entirely clear to me what happened. Off screen, he's manipulating the clutch (I'm pretty sure) on every speed change. When the spindle stopped for the problematic high speed, I can't see or hear any difference from when he dis/engaged the clutch.

 

[MyLilMule]

My 2HL has the high speed option and runs great at 2800 RPM. To suggest you wouldn't use it at 1400 is a bit disingenuous. Maybe not for shell milling or slot cutting, but with the universal head and a small end mill, yes, you would. I also have a Bridgeport and I'm more likely to use that anyway, but there could definitely be times I wouldn't want to change the setup and but still want/need the higher speed.

Kind of weird that he says the motor heaters are the problem when the motor is still running - I can hear it. I wonder if it's more likely the drive clutch slipping or popping out?

Personally, I think it was a mistake replacing the motor with a single phase motor. And I'm not a big fan of the surface rust. It doesn't take all that much to prevent that, even in cold environments. A little WD-40 or some T9 and it's easily preventable. The shiny blue paint job should not be a distraction - look past it.

Yep, parts book pub 258A shows blind holes for the overarms in bracket type "U" for these small mills. Specifically calls out as fitting mills 1CH, 103CH, 2CHL, 203CH, 18AC, 18CH, 103CHP, 24AC, 203CHP. Pretty interesting as I didn't know they even made a 103CH I don't recall seeing it in a catalog. I had kind of assumed the smaller mills had been discontinued by then.

Just for those that don't know K&T made a number of different heads of different sizes and features. Then they made different brackets for those heads for different mills. So a head of one type may fit different sizes of mills when ordered with the correct bracket.

I'm not all that familiar with the post-war machines. Pub 258A is from 1975, and this 2HL is likely from the early 40s. Did they make machines in that era with the smaller over arms? Not that it matters, if it works, it works. Not sure if @imported_eric_h has the serial number to look up the manufacture dates on both lots (machine and head).

 

[imported_eric_h]

U are correct..blue paint IS A DISTRACTION....i will look past it . seriously though u are correct that being able to run mill at higher speeds should be done without any issue. The fact it cant at moment is a concern of mine for sure....and based on what @Ohio Mike said about different mounts for a machine being able to adapt to different sized heads has me wondering if his base isn't for the mill but matches head or it matches the mill but not compatible with head and thats why the higher speeds aren't hitting. The head was purchased separately from the mill.

@MyLilMule i was gonna ask u if u had the high speed version of mill but u clarified that....from my reading a mill head if it is compatible with a machine should be able to handle the rpms. Your mill head doesn't have the drive gear though correct?

sorry for thread high jack @MyLilMule but great learning here all around.

 

[ramsay1]

If the overloads trip, the motor stops.. May well be an issue with clutch slipping at this speed....Takes pretty good torque to turn the head at high speed even with no cutter... Cheers from Louisiana; Ramsay 1

 

[MyLilMule]

@MyLilMule i was gonna ask u if u had the high speed version of mill but u clarified that....from my reading a mill head if it is compatible with a machine should be able to handle the rpms. Your mill head doesn't have the drive gear though correct?

sorry for thread high jack @MyLilMule but great learning here all around.

Correct, no drive gear.

Don't worry about the thread, it's at least related to a similar machine.

 

[imported_eric_h]

ok...bailed on the 2HL...too many questions...some deal killing issues. Bought a 2k instead..now i just have to move it..lol

 

[MyLilMule]

Back to work on the K&T 2HL. Getting the table back on the saddle.

 

[MyLilMule]

Part 2 of getting the table back together

 

[MyLilMule]