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Kimatura H400 15m - toolchanging and paramaters

mat89RS1

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Location
quebec
Hi, I work for a school district as a machining teacher. We got a hold of a used Kitamura h400 my center with a Fanuc 15m control. During the summer break we lost the memory and paramaters on this machine. I understand that the toolchanging and pallet changing were ran thru macros programming. Is there someone out there willing to share the files. We have a tech onsite at the momment but unable to locate any of this since the machine was given to us by a shop that closed down in Montreal.

We are entering the paramaters by hand and so far we got the axis moving again, looking for the next step to put this baby back to life.
 
You could try this to get you started if you have a swingarm type tool changer. Likely won't hurt a thing. I use it on two completely different Fanuc machines and it works fine. (One OM YCI and one 18M Mori Seiki)

Of course you'll have to have a parameter set to call up O9001 with an M6 input, but if you simply want to try it without getting in too deep, change the M99 to M01, M00 or M30 and run it as is. (With the corresponding button/switch pushed/flipped)

%
O9001 (M6 TOOL CHANGE)

G0G40G80M9
G91G28Z0M5
G90M19
M6
M99
%

I know there are a lot of tool change Macros that are way more intense then this, but it works without trouble on my machines. You may need something more if you have Tool Life Management or Toll size/weight control etc. It's quite possible that all the fancy stuff is contained out of sight within the PMC, if it ultimately controls the M6 tool change call. That's MTB dependent.
 
You could try this to get you started if you have a swingarm type tool changer. Likely won't hurt a thing. I use it on two completely different Fanuc machines and it works fine. (One OM YCI and one 18M Mori Seiki)

Of course you'll have to have a parameter set to call up O9001 with an M6 input, but if you simply want to try it without getting in too deep, change the M99 to M01, M00 or M30 and run it as is. (With the corresponding button/switch pushed/flipped)

%
O9001 (M6 TOOL CHANGE)

G0G40G80M9
G91G28Z0M5
G90M19
M6
M99
%

I know there are a lot of tool change Macros that are way more intense then this, but it works without trouble on my machines. You may need something more if you have Tool Life Management or Toll size/weight control etc. It's quite possible that all the fancy stuff is contained out of sight within the PMC, if it ultimately controls the M6 tool change call. That's MTB dependent.

That is for a vertical.
 
That is for a vertical.
Ahh... missed that. Probably also going to need a G30 in there somewhere too. Full on 3 axis G91G28 likely won't do it. Though perhaps on some horizontals it will?

Maybe something like this would be safe to try. The 2nd and 3rd Reference Points should be found in the original parameters somewhere.

%
O9001 (M6 TOOL CHANGE)

G0G40G80M9
G91G28Z0M5
G30P2X0.Y0. (or maybe P3)
G90M19
M6
M99
%

My last best guess to tide the OP over until someone comes around with the same machine and can share.
 
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Hello there. I operate an Kitamura hx630i.
The tool change macro for ours look like this.
 

Hello mat89RS1,

Does your machine have a sliding door between the inside of the machine and the magazine? It would help if you were to Post a picture of the Tool Change mechanism. Also, what is the capacity of the Tool Change Magazine and is it a Conga Chain Style on the side of the machine? If yes, it will probably use an encoder to track the position of the tools in the magazine

Kimatura Horizontal Machining Centres circa the vintage of your machine had a quite a complicated Tool Change System. Following are the Tool Change Macros from a H500 with a 10M comtrol I used to look after for a client; it used both programs in the Tool Change exercise.​

O9001(TOOL CHANGE MACRO)
(PROGRAM CALL M06)
IF[#100EQ1]GOTO2323
P9800M98
N2323M06
#100=0
#502=0
#503=0
M99

O9800(TOOL CHANGE PROGRAM)
(PROGRAM SUB CALL P9001)
G69
G40G80M09
G91G28Y0.0Z0.0M01
#100=1
M06
M99

If your machine is like the H500 I'm referring to, it doesn't really need a Tool Change Macro, as long as you remembered to park the Y and Z axis at the Home Position before executing the Tool Change. Accordingly, the Tool Change Macro for this machine was more about ensuring the Y and Z axes were in the correct position. Again, if your machine uses the same Tool Change Mechanism as the machine I;m referring to, the Tool Change is ultra slow unless the Next Tool in the program is called to the ready position. This is mainly due to the Tool always being put back into the Pot from which they came; that is, T01 will always go back into Tool Pot 01 and so on. The machine I looked after had a 60 Tool Magazine and if the tool being called happened to be at the furthest Pot position away from the Tool Change mechanism, it took quite a while to get to the ready position. When the Next Tool is pre-called, the tool was taken into the interior of the machine and therefore, the tool change was made quite quickly.

I see other suggested Macros in this Thread are using G30 instead of G28. This is probably because the actual Reference Return Position of the Machine doesn't match the correct alignment with the Tool Change Arm and the Tool Change ring of a Tool Holder in the Spindle and the adjustment is being made with G30. The only issue with that strategy is that the Tool Change ties up one of the G30 functions that you may want to use in a program in the future. G53 Y _ _ Z _ _ can be substituted for G91 G28 Y0.0 Z0.0 if you don't want to fix the G28 alignment if it proves to be out.

There are quite a few Counter Parameters to set for the Tool Change; hopefully you have this information. If not, I have copious notes on the H500 that may fit with your machine.

If the Tool Change gets out of sync it can be a brute to get right despite the machine having a recovery system, so don't try a tool change unless you're confident it will be successful. The Tool Change recovery system never worked well on the machine I worked on, so hopefully it was improved for the 15M machine. A picture of the Control Panel showing the Tool Change recovery switch (if it has one) will also be a help to get you sorted.

Regards,

Bill
 
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OP, you sent a message to me yesterday. I should be able to get you what you need. What serial number is your machine, BTW? just want to compare it to our 1998 H400 with 15mb control, 100 ATC.
 
I have parameters, pmc parameters, and some programs. The tool change program is in the ladder, but there is a tool change program 9004 that I will list here:

O9004
G0G80M5
G91G28Z0M9
G28Y0
M6
G40G49
G90
M99


Basically sends it home, then executes m6.

note that my parameters have some extra options that you might not have. For example, my memory amount may not be the same as yours, as we had the stock amount (256k maybe), but we upgraded to 1MB for a while, until that card died. We now have a 2MB card. I do not know which memory option is turned on in this copy of parameters (i didn't check).

Also note that some things such as counters and timers may be wrong, such as the counter for which pallet is in the machine, or what's in the spindle. The tool changer on this machine uses a separate drive (mitsubishi i think) for just the tool changer, and hopefully that didn't lose parameters as well.

Kitamura in Chicago is usually pretty helpful over the phone if you need specific help.
 

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  • ws71 10-28-21pmc parameters.txt
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i have a scanned PDF of the manuals too, but the filesize is huge for some reason, i will need to reduce it (currently about 500MB) before i can upload it.

Edit: compressed to 80mb, still too big.

Edit: hosted on google drive. ignore the stupid watermark


Kitamura may be able to get you a better copy of the manual.
 
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I got the machine running again by entering the parameters by hand, my 5th axis isnt moving for some reason, still have to figure this out but I am getting there, thank you so much for the param and the atc program, I will work with this next week. again, cant thank you enough!
 
The serial for my machine is 42086.

dandrummerman21, I will try the atc program end of next week. thank you!
 
Okay. So my suggestion is that you probably don't need to run the ATC program. That program is for initializing the parameters for it, if they got lost. If you just lost fanuc parameters, you probably didn't lose the ATC. But now you have it.

I believe the book kinda goes over setting parameters for the ATC drive. Please download and review the PDF carefully.

Also, your serial number is about 250 smaller than my machine. I don't know if yours is as new as mine. Does your machine have a LCD screen, or is it a CRT? Does the machine have yellow "alpha drives" in the back, or are they older digital drives (they look kinda like a stack of circuit boards, for lack of a better description). Pictures are worth a thousand words. There's a nonzero chance that some things are slightly different between our machines. Based on the date of my ladder drawing, it should be okay as the ladder is a few years older than the machine, but you never know.


You mentioned a 5th axis? Do you mean the 4th axis? The tombsone that rotates in the machine, standing straight up? Or is yours a 5 axis machine? If you are referring to the "W" axis in the machine, that is for the pallet change arm, and unless you change a keeper parameter, you shouldn't be able to move it by hand. But if you need to home it out, you will need to review the PDF as somewhere in there it does tell how to home it out.
 
Ok here’s the short story on it. I work in a technical school and we got a hold of this machine a few years back for free but we had to move it 160miles. We got everything running except for the pallet changer and some issues with the tool changer.

During the summer there was a parity error and we kinda lost everything we had except for a hard copy of the manuals and some parameter. This machine has the yellow drives that you are referring to but there was an addition of a 5th axis on top of the 4th axis table. Something that was 3rd party but still with a additinnal fanuc drive. (Ill have to work with this later once I get the atc moving). So we got a technician to come in and load by hand the param and he got to the point where the machine moves and no alarms. (except for a ref point on that 5th). Now the tool changing was a macro program Im sure. Ill look into your files and see if I can find the atc 9000prog nc.
 
Now the tool changing was a macro program Im sure. Ill look into your files and see if I can find the atc 9000prog nc.
Hello mat89RS1,
As I've mentioned in an earlier Post, your machine won't need a Tool Change Macro per se; all functions of M06 are taken care of by the PLC. What your Tool Change Macro probably did was ensure that the Y and Z axis are in the correct position for a Tool Change to successfully occur. The Y axis needs to be at the Reference Return position (or close to it) so as to be aligned with the Tool Change mechanism and the Z axis is better to be at the Reference Return position so as to ensure clearance with any Work Holding Fixtures and Work-piece that may be in the machine.

The couple of example Tool Change Macros I Posted earlier will work on your machine, but you need to first ensure that Counters and Timers associated with the Tool Change are set correctly..

Regards,

Bill
 
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I agree with what Bill said. And I'll point out that my machine uses program 9004 as the atc program. If your machine has parameters set to look at 9000, you could change my program number to 9000 and give it a try.

All that is required is that it is home in y and z. X and b can be anywhere, and your 5th shouldn't make a difference.
 
Stating that he has yellow drives doesn't really mean much as the C series axis drives were in yella cases as well.
The spindle drives were open architecture yet tho.

I just watched a machine just like this sell at auction this week for $3000.


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I'll have a try at the toolchange and post the result but last time we ran the atc, it was stuck in a loop where the swing arm would change the tool in an infinite loop. I was under the impression that a limit switch or ligth sensor was either stuck on or off. Have to add that when we got the machine it was working properly.
 
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