Kurt style ball lock vise vs gerardi style vise for 3axis vmc.

[usolutions]

I have a gerardi double station like you just posted but i moved the center jaw to the back and use it as a single vise. It allows me to hold large parts. Its mounted beside a 12" single gerardi they work very well!! I may move 2 clamps more to the middle from the end after reading that gregormarwick thanks! They replaced 2 kurts, that turning the kurts handle from a 1" part to a 5" part sucked.

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I ended up running impact gun on my vise right now just to cut time on chaning damn size. But is is sucky option

 

[usolutions]

i would reach out to eric @Orange Vise and see if he'll cut you a deal

I dont want to insult Eric with my lowball request. I am ok with getting what I pay for. Even if I see value of a better product, it is way beyond what I can afford. I can shell out up to 1500-1600 per pair + tax if i poke couple of holes in my pocket. that is way less than a single OV. at this point it becomes not a deal, but a donation.

 

[twr]

Hi the 2 i have i bought used, they are way to much $$$ buying new. I would rather have 2 used gerardis than 2 new ones made by someone else. A lot of the copys are poor quality! I will say looking for used ones takes time and i can't believe how many i have seen that had end mills cut into the jaws. Likely who ever ran end mills into them did not pay for them!!!

 

[usolutions]

Hi the 2 i have i bought used, they are way to much $$$ buying new. I would rather have 2 used gerardis than 2 new ones made by someone else. A lot of the copys are poor quality! I will say looking for used ones takes time and i can't believe how many i have seen that had end mills cut into the jaws. Likely who ever ran end mills into them did not pay for them!!!

I have been looking at used ones and thei either fly away at new unit price or look like swiss cheese. And almost any vise would be an upgrade over what I use right now.

 

[twr]

Hell i thought it was just me that seen used ones that look like swiss cheese!!

 

[usolutions]

Hell i thought it was just me that seen used ones that look like swiss cheese!!

further complicating things is that I need a matching pair. in ideal double station, but overall not longer than 520mm

 

[twr]

I know you can buy 2 gerardis from different places and they will match in height or aleast mine do and one is a 12" single and one is double.

 

[EPAIII]

You mention buying multiple vises. This suggests that you want them for mounting longer parts on one mill.

If you want the bed heights to match, particularly if you buy the vises at different times, then make sure that is a published specification WITH a TOLERANCE.

I purchased two Shars brand vises, which use the Kurt style, jaw pull-down, at the same time. Economy was a big concern so I took a chance. I don't do a lot of long work and much of it that I have done in the past was for electronic front panels with through holes so small differences in bed height did not matter. Also I could always make a shim to fit over one bed and that is a lot less expensive than paying an extra $500 or so per vise. As luck would have it, their bed heights did match fairly well, but that was luck, not a guaranteed spec. Kurt and most of the expensive vise brands do provide that spec.

Edit: I see you are using pallets. I would think the same things would apply there.

 

[EPAIII]

I see concern over the time needed for cranking of the vise handles.

Most milling vises have removable handles. Have you considered keeping a battery powered drill at the mill? Preferably one with enough torque to actually tighten the vise screw.

As a bonus, with a torque adjustment (clutch) on the drill you will get consistent tightening of the vise every time.

 

[???]

I previously posted about jaw flex on the Gerardi and it's clones. I was setting up a vice on the machine today and took photos of the jaw with and without clamping force. All of these vices have an inherent design flaw in that the screws holding down the fixed jaw are too long. For those that have built dies in the automotive industry where all counter bores end 15 mm from the die block face they will understand what I am talking about. First picture is no load and second is with the vice tightened to 40 Nm which is what I use, less than leaning on the long handle supplied. Excuse the staining I wiped the vice down with a rag that had something on it and when I looked there was staining. This is a clone of the Gerardi but I have both and the Gerardi does the same. As you can see this is not a vice that can be relied on for precision locating off the fixed jaw, this movement will vary but up to .01 mm which is a lot if you are working precisely.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I previously posted about jaw flex on the Gerardi and it's clones. I was setting up a vice on the machine today and took photos of the jaw with and without clamping force. All of these vices have an inherent design flaw in that the screws holding down the fixed jaw are too long. For those that have built dies in the automotive industry where all counter bores end 15 mm from the die block face they will understand what I am talking about. First picture is no load and second is with the vice tightened to 40 Nm which is what I use, less than leaning on the long handle supplied. Excuse the staining I wiped the vice down with a rag that had something on it and when I looked there was staining. This is a clone of the Gerardi but I have both and the Gerardi does the same. As you can see this is not a vice that can be relied on for precision locating off the fixed jaw, this movement will vary but up to .01 mm which is a lot if you are working precisely.

You make good points. As a matter of habit, this is why I clamp a 123 block in the vise, exactly as I intend to use it (parallels, workstop, torque, etc) and then probe the location. 0.004" is quite a bit of movement but, are you saying that if you're good about the other variables, it still won't repeat?

 

[???]

You make good points. As a matter of habit, this is why I clamp a 123 block in the vise, exactly as I intend to use it (parallels, workstop, torque, etc) and then probe the location. 0.004" is quite a bit of movement but, are you saying that if you're good about the other variables, it still won't repeat?

Unless my torque wrench is radically out its not repeatable within .01mm. That's .04 mm not 0.004" I forgot you guys still use the kings thumb measurement. I have tried putting 2 clamps on the back jaw using the machine T-Slots and they still move. I originally came across this problem when I had someone loading a Deckel with a part that needed to be very accurate off a face. Its wasn't a Gerardi but some Australian made vice that worked on the same principle.

Its perfectly good for general tolerance work. Someone posted that their local press shop is using one with great results however they may be punching holes in railway lines in which case its irrelevant. If I need to machine something really accurately I use my grinding vice which is repeatable within microns but I don't really like putting a grinding vice on the mill so I plan on replacing all these vices with large grinding vices that will only be used on the CNC mills. Another big concern for me is that if any crud gets under the jaw it will pull out of square because of the angled pull down function.

Forgot to add a probe negates most of this apart from the crud under the jaw effecting pull down but you could write a custom probing cycle to check for this.

 

[EPAIII]

Shop class! First day! First five minutes!

ALL MACHINES AND ACCESSORIES ARE MADE OF RUBBER!

THEY FLEX!

PERIOD!

It is up to YOU, the machinist, to compensate.

That is THE most important lesson to learn if you are going to be a successful machinist.

 

[usolutions]

0.04mm is nothing compared to my current setup with 0.8mm jaw lift and 0.2mm sideways shift. I do general machinery repair and manufacturing, general tolerance is fine enough

 

[???]

Shop class! First day! First five minutes!

ALL MACHINES AND ACCESSORIES ARE MADE OF RUBBER!

THEY FLEX!

PERIOD!

It is up to YOU, the machinist, to compensate.

That is THE most important lesson to learn if you are going to be a successful machinist.

Do you run Haas, just asking

 

[Clive603]

There are many grades of rubber.

From foam to really, really solid. But it all flexes.

Just have to work appropriately for the grade you are dealing with.

Clive