lever collet closer

[Cal Haines]

Thanks Jim!

I guess the wrench (EE 2084) is what Al needs. My handwheel must be either a part from an earlier design or shop made. (It looks Monarch to me.)

Cal

 

[al macdonald]

Jim, thanks for posting this. It hadn't occurred to me that the answer would be a wrench, let alone one that would do two jobs.

Cal, the idea of turning the drawtube to tighten the collet causes me some concern with the rollers now having to slide as well as roll. Even with good lubrication I could see flat spots starting to develop on the rollers. I'm thinking some kind of moly grease needs to be used here. Do you agree? Cheers, al.

 

[drof34]

Hi Al;

In many applications,there are two schools of thought concerning whether to grease or not. One such application is bearings on cultivator disk. Of course grease would be beneficial but it attracts and holds dirt and some say it causes the bearings to wear faster than if they were ungreased. There is no dirt involved here(supposedly) and grease would be beneficial but only if it is where it is supposed to be. If you grease it you might want to invest in a good face mask and shop apron.

There should be less wear on the rollers if the yoke is fully backed off(lever pushed in) when turning the drawtube.

Jim W.

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Al,

You have to rotate the draw-tube to get the collet threaded into tube the correct amount. You can't rotate the collet in the nose piece because there is a key inside the nose that runs in the keyway on the collet. The collet closer should be open any time you are rotating the draw-tube, so the rollers should not be in contact with the sloped surface of the ring when the draw tube is rotated. I usually alternate rotating the draw-tube and throwing the handle until I find the point where the handle will not move all the way, that is, the draw tube is too tight. I then back the draw tube off a portion of a turn and I'm ready to go.

Cal

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Jim,

If you have one of the draw-tube wrenches, could you tell me how long and how thick it is and maybe post a picture?

Thanks!

Cal

 

[drof34]

Hi Cal

I have one of those wrenches that I made from that drawing. Mine is about 3/8" thick but 1/4 or 5/16" would be just fine and you can make it any length you want. Mine is about 8" long I think. The holes are the same size and .005-.010" larger than the end of the draw tube it fits over. The pins have to fit in the holes of the nut and be concentric with the hole. I used set screws. On the other end you need to broach a keyway in the hole and tackweld a short piece of key stock in it. I think it is 1/4" or whatever fits the keyway in the end of the drawtube. Nothing precise about this.

This thing was made from a piece of scrap that had a well established patina(rusty as hell) on it. I vaguely remember considering taking another pass at cleaning it up but no, its only a wrench and nobody else will probably ever see it. I never expected to post a picture of it on the WWW.

Jim W.

[ 06-06-2007, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: drof34 ]

 

[al macdonald]

Cal and Jim, I had tried rotating the draw tube by hand (without spring and end cap) so I could see the collet is drawn in but kept from rotating by the key in the collet slot. My rollers are kept in constant contact with the sloped ring whenever the spring and end cap are installed, no matter how far the lever is pushed back, and the tension of the spring only makes the roller contact pressure higher. I didn't see any adjustment to change this 'setting'. A closer examination of my rollers definitely showed a little wear on the apex of each one; thus my thought about some grease. I talked to Scott at Monarch this morning and he tells me there should be some kind of high pressure grease (EP2) used here (maybe thicker grease won't sling off as easily). He says the sloped ring is very hard and wasn't worried about it wearing out because it was only slipping against the rollers when turned by hand, and not when the machine is running. Jim, after seeing your homebuilt wrench I didn't bother asking how much a new one costs -- I'll make my own as well.

Cheers, al.

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Al,

How about putting a shim washer in between the sloped disk and the body of the closer, so that the draw-tube and sloped disk can't move quite as far towards the tailstock? That might allow the rollers to come out of contact when the sliding sleeve is moved to the open position.

Cal

 

[al macdonald]

Hi Cal, this had crossed my mind also but when actuated by the lever the movement of the sloped disc is not much over about .125", so not much room to play with here. I'll have a closer look over the weekend to see if it could work.

Cheers, al.

 

[al macdonald]

Hi Cal,

I think a thin shim will do the trick, as even unscrewing the end 'cap' a bit moves the sloped disk back from the rollers. Here's my weekends effort:

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Al,

That's a nice looking wrench! How did you make the keyway?

Cal

 

[al macdonald]

Low tech Cal...... files, piece of keystock and silver solder. I liked the idea of broaching the keyway but dismissed it when I figured I'd have to make up extra guides. I followed Jims advice and only used 1/4" stock for the wrench, and it is definitely adequate. I turned off the sharp part of the threads on the projecting end of the set screws. Thanks for your ideas Jim. Show us a photo of your wrench when you get it done Cal! Cheers, al.

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Al,

What diameter did you make the pins? A 1/4" dowel pin is pretty tight fit in the holes on the threaded disk. My initial check suggests that they are also slightly different distances from center.

Cal

 

[Cal Haines]

I just got a quote from Monarch for the rollers. Ninety ($90) apiece! That's a lot for such a simple part, even from Monarch.

Cal

 

[booeman]

Greeting all - I picked up a 61 10 EE a few weeks ago with a 5C collet chuck. It's been setting about 15 years unmolested in a garage covered with cardboard boxes and anything else you can think of. I noticed from the start the collet closer wasn't right so I tore into it this weekend and these pictures show what I found. right off the bat I discovered that the sloped washer on the draw bar was missing the set screw. I suspect this is part of the reason the draw bar only moved in and out .015" from opened to closed. Any ideas as to the correct position of the sloped washer on the draw bar tube? Also I suspect the spindle taper is a Jarno 12, no Morse or Brown and Sharpe match up. Thanks

 

[Cal Haines]

It doesn't look like you have all the parts. Did you look at the drawing in post #20:

lever collet closer

I’m posting this partly in response to DaveC’s request for information about collet closers, partly because these are fairly rare and may be of general interest, and partly to ask for suggestions on reconditioning my collet closer. My 1943 round dial 10EE is equipped with (what I believe to be)...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[booeman]

Seems like it's all there however like I mentioned the draw bar only moves .015" between the open position and closed and I suspect the culpret is the missing set screw that secures the sloped washer to the draw bar, I'm looking for a bit of information on where to position the washer before I try and press it off the draw bar. .Here's a few pictures of the lathe. Thanks

 

[Cal Haines]

It doesn't seem right that the tapered sleeve (EE-3380) would only be held by just a setscrew; that's just not how Monarch does things. Look for a tapered pin, 90 degrees from the setscrew. (They can be hard to spot, so you may need to polish the area with fine steel wool.) If it is just a setscrew, it would probably be a dog-point setscrew, engaging a hole in the spindle. Mine is off the machine and set aside where I can't get to it to check.

The amount the draw-tube moves is controlled by the slope of the washer. As long as the spring is holding the taper against the rollers, it will move a far as it needs to. You control how far the tube moves left with the threaded washer (EE-2474), but when you open the mechanism, the tube moves right under spring force to stay against the rollers. Maybe you have burr or something that's keeping the tube from moving freely?

 

[booeman]

Thanks I'll look for a pin. When I got the 3 finger / roller shive back far enough to get the fingers loose the bottom roller on 2 out of 3 were petrified with old grease. Someone has had this apart before so maybe they forgot the screw as I looked things over thinking it might be down the spindle tube. I have a manual I bought off ebay but sheet 129 is missing. Any idea where I could get a complete set of sheets? Regards

 

[Cal Haines]

Here you go: