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Lifting info Lodge and Shipley Powerturn

MCritchley

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Milwaukee
We're getting ready to bring in a 2516 26" x 96" powerturn in our shop and am looking for lifting instructions. I just bought the manual from Monarch and was surprised that they did not include lifting instruction. We have a 15 toon hook, so I would like to wrap a large strap around the web in the bed casting.

Does anyone have any L&S lifting documentation?
 

Cole2534

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
We're getting ready to bring in a 2516 26" x 96" powerturn in our shop and am looking for lifting instructions. I just bought the manual from Monarch and was surprised that they did not include lifting instruction. We have a 15 toon hook, so I would like to wrap a large strap around the web in the bed casting.

Does anyone have any L&S lifting documentation?
That's how I picked up my 24x126" 2XC with no issues. I will say that if I had to do it again I would greatly prefer to use a spreader but that's totally dependent on the leg lengths of your sling.
 

Richard King

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Location
Cottage Grove, MN 55016
I just spent 2 hours looking at lathe brochures on Vintage Machinery and only say one book oon lifting a big lathe and it was bad. Its on Dean and Smith. I used to go around the bed up next to the headstock. I used OAK or hardwood (not pine) 2 x 4's or 4 x 4's to crib out the steel cables or nylon straps so the feeds screws didn't get bent. I also would put a safety chain around the headstock to the cables/straps front and back side as a safety so the cable/straps did not slide toward the middle if something went wrong. On some machines I cut a 4 x 4 steel square bar stock and slide under the bed and put the cables on it up by the headstock. I rounded off the sharp edges of the barstock. I also put hard wood between the feed screws so he cables hit the wood and not the feed shafts. Also used a safety chain. lifted there first and then used a Heavy duty chain around the TS end to balance the lathe using grab hooks. I have also see how riggers used a chain hoist on that end. use longer straps and chains so the hook is higher and toward the front. Always lift it about 1" off the floor or truck bed and hit the chains and straps with a 4 x 4 x 36" to see if the chains and straps are not going to slip. Once your sure all is well lift fast and get it close to the floor as fast as possible. If your not comfortable HIRE a professional machinery mover to do it. Make sure you see a copy of the certificate of insurance. Better safe than sorry.
 

tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Richard has a number of good points. Here are a few thoughts I might add.

If I were going to lift it by the web, I would choke by the headstock web (provided that it is close enough to the headstock - if not you'll have to block and go around the bed as Richard mentioned above) and then it at the tailstock end. The chokers need to be long enough that the lifting angles aren’t too shallow - 60 degrees is ideal. Anything wider than 45 degrees and the load rapidly increases on the slings.

At the tailstock end use one choker to come down about two-thirds of the way and put a chain come-along of appropriate size. Choke around the web. This becomes your control point for level.

Have another choker coming down from the lifting hook and a 1.5 ton come-along on this choker to control the pivot motion. Leave the chuck on and choke around the spindle behind the chuck. Put this choker on the same come-along. Sometimes machines want to rotate when being choked by just the web because they are top heavy. You need a way to counter that.

When you take up on the load, leave the come-along on the chuck in neutral until you have all the slack taken out of the choker. Then take a strain on this come-along enough to control rotation. Then adjust the tailstock end for level.

One other thing, when you lift from a single point like this, attach tag lines to the headstock and tailstock end. This keeps you out of harm's way and allows more control as the load is lifted and rotated.

I prefer soft chokers for all of this. Be sure to pad all sharp edges. Also bear in mind that choking reduces a sling’s capacity fairly significantly. There are charts and tables for all of this. I’m not a professional rigger but I do the rigging on my own machines. My experience in rigging comes from working around power plants and construction.
 
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tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
The lathe is 8' long with a 26" swing. I would use more them a 1 1/2 ton chain hoist
Yes, that may not read quite right. I didn't mean to lift the machine with a 1 1/2 ton chain hoist, but rather to go around the chuck with separate chokers and come-along to control any possible rotation. Depending on the machine's weight and how top heavy it is, rigging should be adjusted appropriately. Thanks for catching that.
 

Richard King

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Location
Cottage Grove, MN 55016
I used to work for Midwestern Machinery as a contractor many moons ago. on and off from.1972 to 1992. They were a large used machinery dealer who had 2 overhead cranes. A 20 and a 30 ton crane. I worked with professional riggers and also drove the cranes. I have lifted dozens if not hundreds of lathes. Using forklifts, overhead and jib cranes. I've choked cables, nylon straps and even chains. I never had a crane operators card, but they weren't using. I also hired machinery movers who did. Matts lathe is small compared to some machines I helped lifted or rigged it myself. I just found this catalog on Vintagemachinery.org and on page 7 it shows a 32 x 96 bed lathe (didn't see 26 x 96) and it says it's 18,500 pounds. Also it shows the bed construction on page 5. I would still lift the head end the way I said, a cradle and a safety chain. We used to buy used fire hoses from the Mpls. Fire depts. and put the chains and cables inside to not scratch paint or ways, or carpet or even rags plus the hard wood If your lathe has a bed construction shown on page 5 I would uses a 3/8" chain on the TS end going thru the holes in the bed. Then use the link to get the lathe level. Of it you have a 10 ton chain hoist use it. In the old days we used steel rope cables and in the 1990's we started to use nylon straps and slings. I suppose most use nylon.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
Those videos are interesting on a basic level, however they are aimed at guys working on building sites and in warehouses in the main. Machine tool rigging is a game on it’s own. It’s a real specialism.

I’ve done my share of rigging over the years and I only ever dropped two small machines. A little drill grinder and a planer/thicknesser. The planer/thicknesser lived to fight again but the drill grinder went to the elephants graveyard.

To be honest I’d be loathe to advise anyone how to lift anything until I saw the machine in question, the working environment, the gear involved, and most important of all, the person involved in the rigging.

Having said that Rich touched all of the bases I would have done. Rig around the bed if you can, protect the ways, be 100% sure to securely protect the leadscrew and the shafts, have a steadying tag line to the headstock, do not rig around the Chuck.

It might take you 20 minutes to protect the leadscrew but it’ll take you a lot longer to straighten it once it’s been bent.

I remember being called out to a large shafting lathe that had been newly installed. When the tool got near the Chuck the operator was getting weird finishes. Cut a long story short, the riggers had bent the feed shaft up by the Chuck and when the saddle got down there the bent shaft was causing the saddle to deflect to and fro slightly.

The bed had holes cast in the bed for bars to be passed through for rigging purposes but they must have let the chains get too near to the shaft. It took a full days work to put it right.

Can I just say that not all pro riggers are what they should be when it comes to machine tools. The best equipped rigger I ever saw wanted me to let him lift a big “ Poreba “ roll turning lathe by the Chuck spindle and the bed ! This lathe must have weighed about 25,000 lbs and it also had rigging holes in the bed. He had a brand new beautiful truck, all fancy sign written, with a big HIAB on the back and a brand new fancy pick up to carry all his other equipment. Just no brains unfortunately.

Regards Tyrone.
 

Cole2534

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
To be honest I’d be loathe to advise anyone how to lift anything until I saw the machine in question, the working environment, the gear involved, and most important of all, the person involved in the rigging.
Good point. The proper application of slings and connections is paramount to a safe lift. Endless round slings or Gr100 chains for me and shackles of known origin. I prefer Crosby or CM but have some Euro units that are pretty good, Green Pin I think?
 

Richard King

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Location
Cottage Grove, MN 55016
I know the OP Matt as he has taken 5 of my classes and he is a Journeyman Machinist. One has to generalize on answering questions here. I did tell him to hire a pro if he wasn't sure. He works in an Industrial area of the USA and they have some real pro "Machinery Movers" who move machine shop equipment and just not building materials. I put the You Tube shows - so the readers can see how the pick angle and type of weight / angle works.. I did see a You Tube show where some guy in some other country who isn't speaking English is moving a lathe and it has the holes where he has bars in holes. Matts machine doesn't have holes. So I didn't link it. At the IMTS show they are Millwrights who have no clue on rigging like a Machinery Movers These are the guy's I used when I needed Machinery Movers. . https://rrmachinerymoving.com/
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
One bit of advice is recruit just one helper. Nobody needs more than one, irrespective of the job. The strong silent type who doesn’t say much but just does as he’s told. You’re in charge, make that clear to all involved. If a crane is on site tell the driver he obeys your signals and nobody else’s. Don’t encourage an audience. Tell them “ This isn’t a spectator sport “.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
Good point. The proper application of slings and connections is paramount to a safe lift. Endless round slings or Gr100 chains for me and shackles of known origin. I prefer Crosby or CM but have some Euro units that are pretty good, Green Pin I think?
I remember the “ new “ endless slings coming out to replace the old hemp and sisal ropes. The salesman had to ration them. He must have had the best job ever, they sold themselves.

Putting one of the big old rope slings back on the hook block was like fighting a python at times. Same with the big wire ropes.

A days rigging back then and you didn’t need to go to any gym.

Regards Tyrone
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I would feel strange giving advice to crane pick a medium sized lathe over the internet.

Kinda seems like something that should be a level 1 beginner rigging job for anyone with a crane that can safely lift that machine.

Step 1- Don't do anything unsafe, if there's questions about this, you should not be operating a crane.

Step 2- Don't hurt the lathe (well covered above)

Step 3- Test pick for balance, adjust spreader position, etc.
 

scollins

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Location
Sheffield, Yorkshire UK
Those videos are interesting on a basic level, however they are aimed at guys working on building sites and in warehouses in the main. Machine tool rigging is a game on it’s own. It’s a real specialism.

I’ve done my share of rigging over the years and I only ever dropped two small machines. A little drill grinder and a planer/thicknesser. The planer/thicknesser lived to fight again but the drill grinder went to the elephants graveyard.

To be honest I’d be loathe to advise anyone how to lift anything until I saw the machine in question, the working environment, the gear involved, and most important of all, the person involved in the rigging.

Having said that Rich touched all of the bases I would have done. Rig around the bed if you can, protect the ways, be 100% sure to securely protect the leadscrew and the shafts, have a steadying tag line to the headstock, do not rig around the Chuck.

It might take you 20 minutes to protect the leadscrew but it’ll take you a lot longer to straighten it once it’s been bent.

I remember being called out to a large shafting lathe that had been newly installed. When the tool got near the Chuck the operator was getting weird finishes. Cut a long story short, the riggers had bent the feed shaft up by the Chuck and when the saddle got down there the bent shaft was causing the saddle to deflect to and fro slightly.

The bed had holes cast in the bed for bars to be passed through for rigging purposes but they must have let the chains get too near to the shaft. It took a full days work to put it right.

Can I just say that not all pro riggers are what they should be when it comes to machine tools. The best equipped rigger I ever saw wanted me to let him lift a big “ Poreba “ roll turning lathe by the Chuck spindle and the bed ! This lathe must have weighed about 25,000 lbs and it also had rigging holes in the bed. He had a brand new beautiful truck, all fancy sign written, with a big HIAB on the back and a brand new fancy pick up to carry all his other equipment. Just no brains unfortunately.

Regards Tyrone.
Tyrone Shoelaces commented about riggers not always knowing best.
Around 1990 I worked in Altrincham, south of Manchester. We sold a surplus Lumsden grinder (vertical spindle / rotary table) that probably weighed about 8 tonnes, Sold to a dealer who arranged collection by a third party haulage, rigging company.
We rolled the machine out into a yard with good access for the waggon.
Very impressive, smartly painted articulated waggon turned up, rear mounted HIAB crane. Driver was in a tearing hurry and in very bad mood, admitted he didn't know much about lifting machine tools, more experienced with printing machinery.
The Lumsden had two very large eye bolts in its upper column but projecting horizontally not vertically. Driver connected the lifting hooks to these bolts against my advice, said to hell with it, this is the way I am doing it. He lifted the machine a few inches off the steel pipes it was rolled on, eyebolts sheared and the machine crashed down onto the rollers. Lifting chains flailing in the air with the tension off them.
Driver was furious, raging temper, and stowed the crane, lifted the jacks and drove off.
Fortunately there wasn't any obvious damage to the machine and it was picked up a few days later by a more experienced rigger.
 

MCritchley

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Milwaukee
Thanks for all of the replies!

To be clear I am looking for info published by Lodge and Shipley. It doesn’t seem like they gave it. Monarch and other manufactures are very clear on how to lift their machines. We are hiring riggers to move the machine so it’s really up to them on how to lift the machine in the end.

If there was good documention saying yes it’s ok to wrap a strap around the bed, then I would lift the machine off the truck myself then call the riggers to move the machine in place. It’s a pain trying to coordinate riggers and truckers, i hate paying riggers to stand around. We do several million dollar lifts with our crane so we like to have a detailed plan in place with each lift. It’s a pain but it makes us ask good questions. The dealer that has the machine now moved the machine with a single strap so we know it’s doable but it’s their machine at this point. Picking the machine off the trailer with the riggers versa lift will most likely be what happens.
Lodge was nice to mount the shafts and screw above the bottom of the bed casting so no need for heavy blocking between forks and the bed.

I think I’ll give Harry Camp a call next to see what he thinks.
 








 
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