Looking to move into an industrial machine, and looking for the right machine for the job. Seeking people smarter than I to help guide me.

[EmGo]

I was referring to the cheap quality stuff you get at retail stores.

Some of that is totally outdated too ... thermite used to sneer loudly in his own special way about Harbor Freight ... we all laugh at harbor freight, right ?

I needed a set of wrenches for the boat. One does not buy $1500 worth of wrenches for them to fall into the bilge and rust to death. Went to HF, bought a full set and sockets and a ratchet for maybe $100.

They were just as nice as the Snap-Ons I owned before. Quite likely that they were not as strong but for normal wrench work, just as nice and a bazillion dollars cheaper.

Ended up buying other stuff there after that ... some was junky but a lot of it was much nicer than I expected.

No, I would not expect you to use shars, we are Etalon guys but for a utility set, like shop tools that everyone bangs around ...

 

[Cole2534]

It looks like it needs 150 amps. I assume running only one machine it's never going to draw anywhere close to that, but curious if I still need to run 1/0 for it.

I'd not get toooo hung up on that. My Mazak lathe wants a 100a breaker per the manual but it's been running on 30a of 230v just fine.

 

[Garwood]

Any considerations for doing things like 3d contouring, and machine memory that I should be concerned with? Will older machines struggle more with more complex jobs due to file sizes and processing power?

Does anyone have experience with Sharp with a Fanuc control? SVL-2416sf.

Cheers all

3d surfacing a large area requires a huge memory.

Any machine will do it. Better ones will do it faster. Machines with very high feedrates- 1000+ IPM, or a "mold package" are ideal for surfacing.

The Sharp machines are popular cheap little basic things.

 

[MountaineerMiner]

Any considerations for doing things like 3d contouring, and machine memory that I should be concerned with? Will older machines struggle more with more complex jobs due to file sizes and processing power?

You can use a DNC connection on the older machines to handle the larger programs than the memory will handle.

The issue I have ran into with 3D surfacing on older machines is transfer speed and total lines of code. The total lines of code issue is not a memory related issue since the DCN handles that, its a control limitation. When I get to something like 999,999 lines of code my machine will error out. I think its like the Y2K issue, the machine was not programmed to go out beyond 6 digits or something.

The other issue I have seen is related to transfer speed or efficiency. I will on occasion outrun the transfer capability of the machine if I am running a program with a lot of short lines of code at a rapid speed. This may be an issue with my DNC setup though as it doesnt always happen, I can run a program 50 times and it may "stall" one of those times.

 

[triumph406]

..if my company was to give me such tooling I would gracefully refuse.

I spent 7-1/2 weeks travelling around China in 1987, among other things I bought back Chinese Micrometers from an Engineering store in Chengdu. Hate to tell you this skippy, but the quality of those mics is every bit as good as the name brands. Maybe i got lucky. Only 2 downsides are the slightly cheesy spindle lock, and their metric, I don't do metric

 

[plastikdreams]

Some of that is totally outdated too ... thermite used to sneer loudly in his own special way about Harbor Freight ... we all laugh at harbor freight, right ?

I needed a set of wrenches for the boat. One does not buy $1500 worth of wrenches for them to fall into the bilge and rust to death. Went to HF, bought a full set and sockets and a ratchet for maybe $100.

They were just as nice as the Snap-Ons I owned before. Quite likely that they were not as strong but for normal wrench work, just as nice and a bazillion dollars cheaper.

Ended up buying other stuff there after that ... some was junky but a lot of it was much nicer than I expected.

No, I would not expect you to use shars, we are Etalon guys but for a utility set, like shop tools that everyone bangs around ...

I believe there have been instances where harbor freight power tools were proven to be the same as much more expensive brands.

I had a harbor freight welding hood that I used for many years (neighbor or gave it to me). Other than the small lense size it served me just fine until it wouldn't darken anymore.

 

[LOTT]

Any considerations for doing things like 3d contouring, and machine memory that I should be concerned with? Will older machines struggle more with more complex jobs due to file sizes and processing power?

Does anyone have experience with Sharp with a Fanuc control? SVL-2416sf.

Cheers all

Probably depends more on the machine itself than age. My 2008 Sharp 2412 with Fanuc control struggled with surfacing, but I bet there were 1998 and maybe 1988 mold machines that could zip right around.

And a phase converter amp draw is very dependent on what it's powering.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

I appreciate the debate about parts/tool sourcing, and not trying to ignore it, I just don't want my questions to get lost in that conversation as well, so re-posting from above. Cheers all!

Any considerations for doing things like 3d contouring, and machine memory that I should be concerned with? Will older machines struggle more with more complex jobs due to file sizes and processing power? Any controllers or controller versions/dates that can't handle it?

Does anyone have experience with Sharp with a Fanuc control? SVL-2416sf.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

Probably depends more on the machine itself than age. My 2008 Sharp 2412 with Fanuc control struggled with surfacing, but I bet there were 1998 and maybe 1988 mold machines that could zip right around.

And a phase converter amp draw is very dependent on what it's powering.

Appreciate the reply. There is a local'ish one here that was built in 2013.

 

[Vancbiker]

You will want to find out what control it has and what, if any, options were ordered when purchased. It most likely has the 0iM control. If is the Mate version, that is the lowest spec entry level control.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

Fanuc Oi-Mate-MD CNC Control is what the ad says, so it looks like an entry-level control.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

You can use a DNC connection on the older machines to handle the larger programs than the memory will handle.

The issue I have ran into with 3D surfacing on older machines is transfer speed and total lines of code. The total lines of code issue is not a memory related issue since the DCN handles that, its a control limitation. When I get to something like 999,999 lines of code my machine will error out. I think its like the Y2K issue, the machine was not programmed to go out beyond 6 digits or something.

The other issue I have seen is related to transfer speed or efficiency. I will on occasion outrun the transfer capability of the machine if I am running a program with a lot of short lines of code at a rapid speed. This may be an issue with my DNC setup though as it doesnt always happen, I can run a program 50 times and it may "stall" one of those times.

Appreciate the input!

 

[Elemental_Garage]

The Sharp machines are popular cheap little basic things.

It's the ad on FB marketplace out of Albany. Seems spendy then if it's the basic controller, but this is the first SHARP I've seen, so my sense of what good pricing is on these is next to nil.

Not sure if the link works though: https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...wse_serp:18a07708-7ed9-4263-9784-23aba19269fb

 

[Garwood]

It's the ad on FB marketplace out of Albany. Seems spendy then if it's the basic controller, but this is the first SHARP I've seen, so my sense of what good pricing is on these is next to nil.

Not sure if the link works though: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/635491948038877/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:18a07708-7ed9-4263-9784-23aba19269fb

I know Andrew also lol.

Look, you are all over the map here. Sounds like you've had a taste of CNC milling with a hobby machine thing. Now you want a big boy machine, but haven't really figured out what that looks like yet.

IMO, you don't know what you don't know. You are in a stage where you don't really know exactly what you need a machine to do or what a machine needs to do the things you might want it to do.

I've been there!

Any real CNC mill will do what you need to get started. My advice is start cheap. Buy the absolute best machine you can for the lowest possible price, get all the infrastructure in place to support it- Phase converter, air compressor, tooling, workholding. metrology, bandsaw, material and chip handling, etc.

Use the shit out of it. Make all the things. Then after a couple years of that you'll have a strong understanding of what the specs of the machine you have mean for the work you are doing. Then with that wisdom, look for the machine that fits exactly what you are doing.

Would I buy that 2416 Sharp? Sure! But not for $27,500. That's in the realm of nice older Robodrill or Brother money to me. I feel life is too short for umbrella toolchangers and the 0i Mate control is the most basic control there is. It's a get the job done with zero frills control.

You know that 31" x 20" travel Femco on craigslist I linked to awhile back is better in every way than that Sharp is right? Even being 20 years older it is a more productive machine and for approximately 90% less money.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

I must have missed that or forgotten about it. There aren't a ton of details about it, so I'd be interested to know more about what they're capable of. I'll do some research. Any contacts in the Woodland area you'd trust to inspect a machine?

Yes, all over the map, but not intentionally. I just don't want to end up with something where a year down the road I'm already looking to sell it and move to the next. I acknowledge that someday I'll outgrow a machine, but that's what I'm coming out of now. I spent about 6 months with a hobbyist mill doing steel and aluminum and then decided I needed something more rigid, bigger, and more professionally built. And I don't mind putting some work into it, but in the first 2 months of owning the last machine, I spent more time rebuilding it than actually milling with it. And this was assembled by the builder, so it was unexpected to be spending that much time. I'm not expecting a drop-in and go for my budget, but it would be nice to at least mill more than I maintain if that makes sense.

 

[plastikdreams]

I'd say go with a haas, I've run multiple controls and it's by far the most user friendly. Parts and service are plentiful and you can get a pretty decent used machine for what you are looking to spend.

 

[Elemental_Garage]

Does the Fanuc Series O-M Controller have post-processor support from Fusion 360, or do you need to manually edit code to make it run? I see a mix of solutions, but many of the posts over at autodesk conclude before a resolution is found.

 

[LOTT]

You know that 31" x 20" travel Femco on craigslist I linked to awhile back is better in every way than that Sharp is right? Even being 20 years older it is a more productive machine and for approximately 90% less money.

I'm with you on everything else, but buying an unusual machine as your first leap into industrial CNC is dicey. One thing the Haas guys have going is the huge number of tutorials and base of knowledge (Not that I'm recommending Haas, just recognizing that it's a thing).

I have an oddball orphan Taiwanese lathe, it was cheap and it's paid for itself many times over. But when something fails there's a grand total of four people in the country who can/have helped me figure it out (two of whom are posting in this thread).

Caveat: some guys like Garwood and VANCBIKER can walk up to any Fanuc controlled machine on the planet no matter the build and jive with it. A newbie can't do that without many tears and gnashing of teeth.

Bottom line- I'd trade "ultimate capability" (e.g. Femco) for "lots of other people are running the same machine".

 

[LOTT]

Does the Fanuc Series O-M Controller have post-processor support from Fusion 360, or do you need to manually edit code to make it run? I see a mix of solutions, but many of the posts over at autodesk conclude before a resolution is found

Yes, mostly worked fine. I had to hand enter the high speed look ahead code after the tool change to make that work, but otherwise it was fine. Like I said earlier surfacing wasn't it's strong point so the high speed thing wasn't needed very often.

 

[Garwood]

I'm with you on everything else, but buying an unusual machine as your first leap into industrial CNC is dicey. One thing the Haas guys have going is the huge number of tutorials and base of knowledge (Not that I'm recommending Haas, just recognizing that it's a thing).

I have an oddball orphan Taiwanese lathe, it was cheap and it's paid for itself many times over. But when something fails there's a grand total of four people in the country who can/have helped me figure it out (two of whom are posting in this thread).

Caveat: some guys like Garwood and VANCBIKER can walk up to any Fanuc controlled machine on the planet no matter the build and jive with it. A newbie can't do that without many tears and gnashing of teeth.

Bottom line- I'd trade "ultimate capability" (e.g. Femco) for "lots of other people are running the same machine".

Well, in defense of my advice and the Femco, This fellow is within short distance of myself and Vancbiker. There are plenty of independent techs in the Portland area that speak Fanuc well.

The 90's Taiwan VMC's are usually a pretty solid machine. And Femco does have a dealer in SW Washington not far from here. Whether they are good for anything I don't know, but I've not heard a bad thing.

I would not hinge my business's future on investing in that Femco. However, I would buy it for $5k or less if it checked out in decent shape and run the snot out of it while I kept my ear to to the ground for a deal on something super nice. This guy is coming from a Mach3 something or other. I don't think he has a good sense of what he actually needs. He doesn't have the experience to figure that out yet. I suggests he gets that experience with a cheap VMC and when he knows what he wants- Seek it out. Then keep the cheap beater if he has room for 2nd ops, easy one-off stuff, fixtures, etc.