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Machine probe options

Thanks for sharing that. Sounds like I need to use an M-code to drive a relay and set it up to use the NO contact for the skip signal from the probe, and the NC signal for the tool setter?
Why does this take x2 (M402 and 404) outputs?

Trying to wrap my head around this, which is these connections are from the probe receiver to the board and which are to the relay?
View attachment 441225
24/0V for both probes to aux power supply
Skip signal from work probe receiver to NO on the relay (work probe off by default)
Skip signal from tool probe to NC on the relay (tool probe on by default)
Com on the relay to XTIO terminal 11 (skip signal)
XTO 104 to activate the relay coil (triggered by M402)

Not sure what the other connections are? Are they wired to the probes, to the relay, jumpered together?
Sorry for not being clear enough.
Brother is normally using separate 0V at SKIP input (at pin51 of XT1) and another separate interface power supply voltage (0 volts on pins 111 and 112 of XT0).
Contrary to other suppliers, the EMG uses the same power source to service both the interface power supply and the SKIP output.
I suggest to jumper the 0 Volt terminals at XT1 pin51 and XT0 pin 111.

M402 drives the output on pin 104 ON (Logic 1).
M403 resets the output on pin 104 OFF (Logic 0)
M404/M405 is another M ON/OFF function, you probably will not use it.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
Almost all measuring cycles that I have encountered that were not written for food had such protection. This is definitely in the Reni, Bloom and Heidenhain cycles.
The scheme is very simple - we have the starting point for starting the measurement and the permissible mechanical stroke of the probe. In the case of Reni with a 50mm probe, the maximum stroke in X and Y is about 13mm, in Z - 7mm. Therefore, in the measuring cycle the machine moves 10 and 5 mm, and if the touch still has not occurred, an error is activated.
This saved me several times from breaking the probe when I forgot to turn on the probe when setting it up.
Seems that the reality is much simpler. There is no necessity to calculate the maximum deflection distance as a function of stylus length.
The move towards the touch is G31 move. If probe is not switched ON, from logic point of view the touch occurred and immediate trigger is generated. The relevant macro logic routine is executed to cause alarm.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
I'm actually at the machine now trying to get this sorted out.
Part of my confusion comes from the Brother manual, is the automatic centering even the right item to be looking at?

It's only 3 wires and two of them are for power... I'm really not sure how I am not understanding this.
Does it matter that I'm not powering the unit from the XTIO board?
Pin 11 is for skip, the manual shows Pin 12 being 0V
The manual says "connect signal of the touch probe to the 11 pin and 12 pin"
Sounds like jumping p
Pins 11 and 12?
Not sure what you're suggesting about Pins 51 and 111...do you mean jumper between 51 and 111, or from one of those to 12?

Another thing I noticed was the safety circuit for the tool setter. On the C00 machine there are some terminals labeled XTEMSIN which I'm thinking must be an external stop circuit, blue and green wires from the tool setter are connected here. My B00 machine does not have this block of terminals, is there something analogous to that block on this board or do I have to wire it into the estop circuit?
 
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If probe is not switched ON, from logic point of view the touch occurred and immediate trigger is generated.
This should be so :) But unfortunately, this is not always true.
I believe that the signal from the probe to the CNC, in the “0” state, should have a high level of +24(5)V. Then any absence of +24(5)V at the CNC input for any reason will be perceived as a trigger - and at the beginning of the measuring cycle this will cause an error. Unfortunately, not all probes can do this: many produce a high level when triggered. And then, the absence of a signal at the CNC input may be due to the fact that the probe turned on, but did not work. Or maybe because the probe didn’t turn on, or the cable was damaged, or something else.
 
I'm actually at the machine now trying to get this sorted out.
Part of my confusion comes from the Brother manual, is the automatic centering even the right item to be looking at?

It's only 3 wires and two of them are for power... I'm really not sure how I am not understanding this.
Does it matter that I'm not powering the unit from the XTIO board?
Pin 11 is for skip, the manual shows Pin 12 being 0V
The manual says "connect signal of the touch probe to the 11 pin and 12 pin"
Sounds like jumping p
Pins 11 and 12?
Not sure what you're suggesting about Pins 51 and 111...do you mean jumper between 51 and 111, or from one of those to 12?

Another thing I noticed was the safety circuit for the tool setter. On the C00 machine there are some terminals labeled XTEMSIN which I'm thinking must be an external stop circuit, blue and green wires from the tool setter are connected here. My B00 machine does not have this block of terminals, is there something analogous to that block on this board or do I have to wire it into the estop circuit?
I hope the attached file will be helpful.
1. Both the probe interface and the TS have to be powered from IO24/IOG.
2. The GREEN from probe interface to be connected to NO or NC contact of the M402 operated relay.
3. I don't know which type of NANO 500 TS (PNP or NPN) you are going to use, in any case the output should go to NC or NO contact not used by PROBE output.
4. The COMMON of the relay goes to SKIP input of the Control (pin 11 ?).
5. Regarding the overtravel contact of the TS, I have to say that I never used this option. It works nice if Z axis is "politely" approaching it. But on high feedrates or rapid - it is useless.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 

Attachments

  • BROTHER S-2 TERMINALS.pdf
    551.9 KB · Views: 3
I hope the attached file will be helpful.
1. Both the probe interface and the TS have to be powered from IO24/IOG.
2. The GREEN from probe interface to be connected to NO or NC contact of the M402 operated relay.
3. I don't know which type of NANO 500 TS (PNP or NPN) you are going to use, in any case the output should go to NC or NO contact not used by PROBE output.
4. The COMMON of the relay goes to SKIP input of the Control (pin 11 ?).
5. Regarding the overtravel contact of the TS, I have to say that I never used this option. It works nice if Z axis is "politely" approaching it. But on high feedrates or rapid - it is useless.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
Thank you for sharing that Stefan, that will be very helpful. It sounds like the auxiliary power supply is the source of my problems.

AFAIK the older Brother aux I/O is all NPN, Speedios have a set of terminals for both PNP and NPN. As a total hack I'm not sure the difference so I'm just following the directions and crossing my fingers!

My thought was to use the tool setter overtravel circuit to trigger to probe like Ed proposed.
If the work probe is called up it can go and touch the tool setter to "wake up"
If it fails to wake up the tool setter overtravel would be triggered and prevent a crash

How does your customer using the EMG system startup the work probe?
 
The big question you need to ask yourself is how is the support if/when something goes wrong and you need answers?
Is that worth saving the money over a Renishaw?
I can tell you Blum’s support is a joke. They’ll sell you a new one. I think they offered me 10% off on a znano that got coolant in it.
 
So close!

I don't have the XTPW block as pictured, but on the Speedio at work XTIO Pins 23 and 24 provide 24V and 0V, so I matched that to my XTIO Pins 21 and 22, which are also 24V and 0V.

Probe Signal to NO contact on the relay that is triggered by XTO Pin 104/M402

COM on the relay to XTIO Pin 11 which is the TOUCH input.

Your diagram shows XTI Pin 51 0V, but I am all out of wires! What is that supposed to be connected to?
 
Your diagram shows XTI Pin 51 0V, but I am all out of wires! What is that supposed to be connected to?
Seems that both (of Skip input and general Power Supply) 0's are internally connected. Disregards this connection. Just power the machine, execute M402 and look for the SKIP signal diagnostic.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
Thank you for sharing that Stefan, that will be very helpful. It sounds like the auxiliary power supply is the source of my problems.

AFAIK the older Brother aux I/O is all NPN, Speedios have a set of terminals for both PNP and NPN. As a total hack I'm not sure the difference so I'm just following the directions and crossing my fingers!

My thought was to use the tool setter overtravel circuit to trigger to probe like Ed proposed.
If the work probe is called up it can go and touch the tool setter to "wake up"
If it fails to wake up the tool setter overtravel would be triggered and prevent a crash

How does your customer using the EMG system startup the work probe?
1. The customer who is using the EMG probe activates it by hand touch.
2. Never use the active member of TS to mechanically activate anything.
3. If you wish to perform the automatic activation, I suggest the following:
3.1. Load the probe to the spindle.
3.2. Using the handwheel bring the probe's sphere some 1/8 inch above devices air blow tube,
just 1/4 of the probe's sphere covering the pipes face (see the red arrow on attached sketch).
3.3. Notice the MACHINE XYZ coordinates of this position (xxx.xxx, yyy.yyy, zzz.zzz).
3.4. Prepare small program, this will be your PROBE ACTIVATION program:
%
O9876 (PROBE ACTIVATION)
G91
G28G0Z0
X[xxx.xxx-#5021]Y[yyy.yyy-#5022]
Z[zzz.zzz-#5023]
G1Z-.25 F10.
G0Z.25
#101=#5023
G31Z-0.01F10.
G4
#102=#5023
IF[ABS[#102-#101]GT0.005]GOTO100
#3000=90 (PROBE ACTIVATION FAILURE)
N100
G0G28Z0
M99
%
Of course call the program by M98P9876.

The program switches the probe ON and checks if the process was successful, rising alarm in case of fail.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 

Attachments

  • emg nano.pdf
    221.2 KB · Views: 1
So I have both probes connected:

XTIO provides 24/0V to both probes.
I have a relay driven by XTO 104/M402.
COM from relay connected to XTIO 11/Skip.
Signal from tool setter to relay NC.
There's a brown wire from tool setter connected to 0V, per the NPN configuration in the manual.
Signal from work probe to relay NO.

With the machine just sitting I can depress the tool setter and I see on the I/O screen it registers the signal

If I enter M402 in MDI I see my relay is activated, but when I repeatedly trigger the work probe stylus I see lights flicker on the receiver, but nothing happens on the I/O screen...

I even swapped batteries in the probe just to confirm that wasn't the issue.

I have no idea how this actually works but maybe I'm missing a connection like the "extra" brown wire from the tool probe that connects to 0V, do I need something similar for the tool probe?
 
So I have both probes connected:

XTIO provides 24/0V to both probes.
I have a relay driven by XTO 104/M402.
COM from relay connected to XTIO 11/Skip.
Signal from tool setter to relay NC.
There's a brown wire from tool setter connected to 0V, per the NPN configuration in the manual.
Signal from work probe to relay NO.

With the machine just sitting I can depress the tool setter and I see on the I/O screen it registers the signal

If I enter M402 in MDI I see my relay is activated, but when I repeatedly trigger the work probe stylus I see lights flicker on the receiver, but nothing happens on the I/O screen...

I even swapped batteries in the probe just to confirm that wasn't the issue.

I have no idea how this actually works but maybe I'm missing a connection like the "extra" brown wire from the tool probe that connects to 0V, do I need something similar for the tool probe?
The probe's interface IFi-P4 has 3 wires only: RED connected to 24V, BLACK connected to 0V and GREEN - the SKIP signal output. If the lights flicker on the receiver in response to the deflections of the probe's stylus, there should be voltage change between the GREEN and BLACK. Disconnect the GREEN wire from the NO contact of the relay, put the voltmeter between GREEN and BLACK wires and observe if voltage is changing while you touch the stylus. If positive, disconnect the wire from control's input 11(SKIP) and connect there the GREEN, omitting the relay. Then check the controls I/O status once you touch the probe.

Advise.
Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
The probe's interface IFi-P4 has 3 wires only: RED connected to 24V, BLACK connected to 0V and GREEN - the SKIP signal output. If the lights flicker on the receiver in response to the deflections of the probe's stylus, there should be voltage change between the GREEN and BLACK. Disconnect the GREEN wire from the NO contact of the relay, put the voltmeter between GREEN and BLACK wires and observe if voltage is changing while you touch the stylus. If positive, disconnect the wire from control's input 11(SKIP) and connect there the GREEN, omitting the relay. Then check the controls I/O status once you touch the probe.

Advise.
Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
I just reviewed my records. The EMG probe/interface is generating the PULSE output rather then STATUS output. Therefore you should look just for blink on I/O screen when the stylus is deflected.
Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
I don't see any sort of indication the probe signal is being registered on the I/O screen. The screen remains the same, no flash or blink.

I put a meter between Skip and OV from the receiver, it reads 0.2 and then jumps momentarily to ~5V when triggered.

I just reviewed my records. The EMG probe/interface is generating the PULSE output rather then STATUS output. Therefore you should look just for blink on I/O screen when the stylus is deflected.
Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
Use trigger mode. Maybe :)
I don't know what "trigger mode" is.
What I do know from information supplied by Giro Dyno above is, that Tool Setter's output is changing control's I/O status, probe's interface output does not. Conclusion is quite straight forward.

Stefan
Cogito Ergo Sum
 
I don't see any sort of indication the probe signal is being registered on the I/O screen. The screen remains the same, no flash or blink.

I put a meter between Skip and OV from the receiver, it reads 0.2 and then jumps momentarily to ~5V when triggered.

Something is very wrong here, with the NPN set up, you should have 24V on the receiver output without triggering the probe, and a low voltage (or momentary drop to zero) when the probe is triggered. Do you have the pull up resistor installed as shown?
 
I started by followed the automatic centering details: Red to 24V and Black to 0V on an auxiliary power supply, Green signal to terminal 11 on the XTIO and a jumper between 11 and 12. But I am not seeing anything changing when looking at the I/O page and flicking the probe. The probe and receiver appear to be communicating, I can see them flicker together as I deflect the stylus. The manual doesn't mention a parameter change needing to be made to enable this like it does for tool breakage.

I have not yet tried to connect the tool probe; should I be following the NPN wiring guide with a pull up resistor? It looks like they should be connected to the same terminals as the work probe; is that a problem, and is there an alternative set I can use?

OK, read this more carefully, and also realized the schematic with the pullup was for the tool probe. While it is possible that an external pullup is needed, the Brother schematics suggest it is built into the machine.

You should not have a jumper between 11 and 12. 12 is a ground, 11 is the probe input, and connecting them is what the probe is supposed to do when triggered. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what was written above.

If pin 11 is disconnected from external things, is there 24V on it? If so, good-- then it has an internal pullup resistor.
A parameter may need to be tweaked to set the machine up for NPN/active low input to get 24V on that pin. If you don't have 24V on that pin, figure this out before connecting probes, then try the probes one at a time.

When you saw 0-5 volts on the receiver output, was it wired to the machine? I suspect the receiver has no internal pullup and relies on the machine or an external pullup, so if it wasn't connected this wouldn't be surprising.
 
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Sorry for not being clear enough.
Brother is normally using separate 0V at SKIP input (at pin51 of XT1) and another separate interface power supply voltage (0 volts on pins 111 and 112 of XT0).
Contrary to other suppliers, the EMG uses the same power source to service both the interface power supply and the SKIP output.
I suggest to jumper the 0 Volt terminals at XT1 pin51 and XT0 pin 111.

It sounds like the probe input may be isolated from the 24V power supply. If this is the case you will need to break the isolation by doing what Stefan said.
 








 
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