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Maincon upgrade process has begun on a 2004 Haas VF2

My HFO confirmed the price increase recently. He wasn’t really sure why it doubled. We have two possible theories. One, Haas accidentally missed priced it originally. Or two, they sold it at a discount while the techs figured out how to install it.


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Or a THIRD possible theory--

Haas no longer wants business from their old loyal customer base. That would be the guys that may have a 91 Lunar module VF-1 machine and a couple from 95, 98, 2000, 2010, 2012 plus couple new ones still on warranty.

As I told my HFO, 15K to get an old machine up and running is not in my opinion supporting their old machines. 15k to keep an older machine running is Sunsetting the machine. Sunsetting was something Haas advertised they did not do...used to be all parts and service for every machine they made.

Trying to lay a 15K fix as an upgrade is demeaning...15k only gets you a shiny screen, machine will not be making better parts, nor will it be making parts faster.

Hope HAAS reconsiders... I know if pushed to make that decision I'll be reconsidering.
 
Or a THIRD possible theory--

Haas no longer wants business from their old loyal customer base. That would be the guys that may have a 91 Lunar module VF-1 machine and a couple from 95, 98, 2000, 2010, 2012 plus couple new ones still on warranty.

As I told my HFO, 15K to get an old machine up and running is not in my opinion supporting their old machines. 15k to keep an older machine running is Sunsetting the machine. Sunsetting was something Haas advertised they did not do...used to be all parts and service for every machine they made.

Trying to lay a 15K fix as an upgrade is demeaning...15k only gets you a shiny screen, machine will not be making better parts, nor will it be making parts faster.

Hope HAAS reconsiders... I know if pushed to make that decision I'll be reconsidering.

I get it. $15k sucks. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just not sell an upgrade if Haas wanted to pull the plug on the older machines?


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I get it. $15k sucks. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just not sell an upgrade if Haas wanted to pull the plug on the older machines?

/QUOTE]


To me an upgrade would give me some kind of feature and benefit that I do not have.

I upgrade my machine to a 4th axis. I buy the amp, wires and I have a 4th axis...didn't have before. Money well spent, machine is more versatile.

I upgrade my spindle to a High Speed spindle...I can now increase my feedrates and finishes in Alum, with small diameter tooling. A chunk of change...but I have a benefit of my funds.


My processor goes on the fritz...for 15k I can get it back up and running. New screen, boards and cables are of little interest to me. Its not an upgrade, its a fix, and expensive fix.
 
I get it. $15k sucks. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just not sell an upgrade if Haas wanted to pull the plug on the older machines?

/QUOTE]


To me an upgrade would give me some kind of feature and benefit that I do not have.

I upgrade my machine to a 4th axis. I buy the amp, wires and I have a 4th axis...didn't have before. Money well spent, machine is more versatile.

I upgrade my spindle to a High Speed spindle...I can now increase my feedrates and finishes in Alum, with small diameter tooling. A chunk of change...but I have a benefit of my funds.


My processor goes on the fritz...for 15k I can get it back up and running. New screen, boards and cables are of little interest to me. Its not an upgrade, its a fix, and expensive fix.

One thing that is sure nice over the original setup is being able to DNC directly from a modern USB stick. With a usb floppy emulator you are limited to 1.4 mb files. So now I am running programs I could not in the past. Of course you were able to DNC with serial on the original machine but that’s not always a convenient option for everyone. Also, I find I am more efficient with the new jog handle since I don’t have to look at it as much when using it. I do wish the knobs were a bit bigger on the jog handle or possibly rubber coated. With coolant/oil on my fingers it can tend to get a little slippery and hard to grip at times. There are some supposed benefits in the motion control according to Haas as you go up in software rev. Nothing I have been able to personally notice though. You do have the option to increase memory size now as a paid option if you need that feature. Also Ethernet functionality is available as a paid upgrade.


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Turbo442,

If you need or want those options you can consider it an upgrade.

Me...my ol machines run simpler jobs that run fine at the pace the machines were meant to run.

If I need more...I run those jobs in a newer machine.

Programs are loaded via RS-232 or floppy when I need to load a new program. Pendant...I bought my 1st machine with one, rarely if ever do we use anymore.


15k would just be a repair bill...not an upgrade.

15k repair on a older HAAS is a Sunsetting move.


15k to keep an older machine running...by the time my new machines are 10-15 years old what will the Upgrade Cost be to keep them running, 20-25k?
 
There's a way to download parameters and settings. I did that a few days ago for my older VF-2. If anyone needs that, pm me and I'll send you the procedure.

I need the m13XX.bin software, did you happen to have it? They want to charge me a full upgrade for 20 grand, I'm desperate, Haas service is a joke.
 
You are right, in Mexico they want 20 grand for that same fix. An engineer inside the company told me they have all of the boards, they just want to dig their hands in your wallet. In my case the only thing I'm willing to do its buy another CNC, not ever look again back at haas and wait till someone can fix my board and be kind enoguh to supply the software wich is the only thing stopping me right now.
 
You are right, in Mexico they want 20 grand for that same fix. An engineer inside the company told me they have all of the boards, they just want to dig their hands in your wallet. In my case the only thing I'm willing to do its buy another CNC, not ever look again back at haas and wait till someone can fix my board and be kind enoguh to supply the software wich is the only thing stopping me right now.

I don't know if the actually "have all the boards". But, if not, the board itself is easy. So are 90% of the other electrical components.
But, I do know for a fact that the IC chip on that board that they say is obsolete, can easily be bought.
I have had many guys who would know (semi-conductor is all they do) tell me when I told them the number on the chip: "how many do you want? how about 10,000 in 30 days?".
They are definitely using the fact that they are the only ones who can quickly, and reliably, reinstall the software, as leverage to play on your electronics ignorance, to make a money grab.
Plain and simple. Nothing on this planet is obsolete if enough of them are needed. Just because its not a stocked item any more doesn't mean it can not be produced.
They can buy that chip. It may come from China? It may cost more than it used to? But, they absolutely could buy it.
My old boss (who used to own a two HAAS machines) has been in semi-conductor his whole life.
He laughed when I told him about this and rattled off the names of several fabs that all they do is specialize in "obsolete" silicon stuff.
Fuck HAAS. If they had any integrity, they would do what it took to support these machines! And, save their customers money. Not ass-rape them.
We are not talking about 30 year old worn out machines here.
I have three that are 10,11, and 12 that still run great, and make great parts, that are susceptible to this bullshit situation! Fuck yea I'm pissed!
At 10 years old, having a $1000 part failure require a $20k repair? HAAS is saying one of two things:
1. "Our machines are disposable garbage. Throw it away like you would your TV and buy a new HAAS" (fat fucking chance!)
2. "We got paid for that machine once already. We don't care about you at all. But, we will gladly steal your money!"
 
My old boss (who used to own a two HAAS machines) has been in semi-conductor his whole life.
He laughed when I told him about this and rattled off the names of several fabs that all they do is specialize in "obsolete" silicon stuff.

Replacement silicon is available, and instructions exist on older "good" chips. It would be interesting to see if a coalition could be put together that could recreate no-longer-stocked boards or chips, using "Right of Repair" legislation to back it.

California becomes the 18th state to introduce right to repair bill - The Verge

Gene Haas is famous for whipping out his lawyers whenever he feels like it, but there must be some consumer protections that would cover purposely obsoleted componentry. The rules on software are trickier, but usually the law backs those who legally own the product that contains the software, like making a backup of a CD. If you own a machine with code that was part of the original purchase, you should be able to "back up" and reinstall that code as your right.

That obviously means you couldn't enable High Speed Machining if you didn't pay for it, and Haas would be in their rights to refuse your attempting to pay for it to get it turned on. But anything part of the original sale should be good.

My older machines are still [knocks on wood] good to go, but I'm as worried about this as any other Haas owner. And yes, that should include "brand new machine" owners, as they'll do this again in whatever number of years. There's got to be a fix that doesn't involve bending over...
 
You know, there's enough Haas owners here that we could start a "petition" thread calling on Haas to reverse this policy of purposely shafting older machine owners. It's got to be literally thousands of machines represented on PM.

Surely this could become enough of an annoyance to push Haas into doing the right thing, either bringing these parts back, or lowering the upgrade cost to something more rational.
 
You know, there's enough Haas owners here that we could start a "petition" thread calling on Haas to reverse this policy of purposely shafting older machine owners. It's got to be literally thousands of machines represented on PM.

Surely this could become enough of an annoyance to push Haas into doing the right thing, either bringing these parts back, or lowering the upgrade cost to something more rational.

I understand the price of the "upgrade". It is a lot of parts! Some, high dollar parts.
It is the fact that it is being shoved down our throats, to push dollars out our asses that pisses me off beyond belief.
It is a blatant money grab. And, in doing so, they have burnt their bridge of integrity to nothing more than ashes in the wind.
Insulting our intelligence in the process. Which pisses me off again :mad5:
 
I understand the price of the "upgrade". It is a lot of parts! Some, high dollar parts.
It is the fact that it is being shoved down our throats, to push dollars out our asses that pisses me off beyond belief.
It is a blatant money grab. And, in doing so, they have burnt their bridge of integrity to nothing more than ashes in the wind.
Insulting our intelligence in the process. Which pisses me off again :mad5:

Well, we can be mad, or we can try to do something about it. I'd he happy to put effort into trying to convince Haas to change this policy, but it takes numbers, and lots of noise to have this sort of change occur. You interested in a little shit-stirring? I can make a post in the Management forum to see if there's others who would like better options on repairs.
 
Well, we can be mad, or we can try to do something about it. I'd he happy to put effort into trying to convince Haas to change this policy, but it takes numbers, and lots of noise to have this sort of change occur. You interested in a little shit-stirring? I can make a post in the Management forum to see if there's others who would like better options on repairs.

I have been stirring shit about this for quite some time! I even have an email, and IG DM trail with HAAS. They know exactly how I feel.
 
I understand the price of the "upgrade". It is a lot of parts! Some, high dollar parts.


If someone wants to "Upgrade" their machine...by all means please do so and I am glad Haas has put out a kit to allow them to do this.

I do not need All those expensive components on my old machines...could care less if screen is mono-chrome or has a curved Ultra high definition backlit LCD screen.

Me, I just want to keep the older machines running like they have been till I decide to trade it in / sell it for a new one.

A new machine will have ALL the upgrades in addition will have several more. The person that buys the old Haas could have a nice stepping stone machine leading them into a new machine when times right.

Make me pay 15k to repair a 91 machine, a 95 machine, a 98 machine is telling me do not look at their 2018's. A shame too as the TWO 2017's I bought last year are pretty good and was looking to update the older ones as room is scarce for more, but need more capacity.

The way they handle this determines if next machine will be another Haas or the Okuma I was ready to pull trigger on....but Doosan is looking real good too.
 
I'd be up for that. Wheelie knows that I've not been shy about my position on this matter with them, either. And they've managed to bollocks up the last four attempts at dealing with them, as well. In fact, last one was just last week. Machine inspected by Haas** has main regulator installed backwards, so has been pumping water through the top end pneumatics for some time. That killed the solenoid valves. According to them, the valves are obsolete and one is forced to purchase the upgrade kit. $275 for JUST THAT VALVE. Not the whole upgrade kit. That's even more.

I immediately went and bought a brand new replacement valve. ( MAC ) Cost us $50.00 and that INCLUDED the overnight air, morning delivery shipping. :rolleyes5: :scratchchin: And... now for the kicker... The "replacement" valve Haas wants to sell? Well, it's the same as the original valve. Well... that's not entirely true... It does have a $175.00 greater price tag, presumably because it's a replacement for an "obsolete" unit... :rolleyes5:

** - The very same Haas tech inspected the spindle and proclaimed its runout at 0.0002" at 6" from spindle face. Even have the paper stating as much. Of course, in reality there was a 1" long GOUGE causing approximately 0.030" runout of the tool holder... :eek: :rolleyes5: :angry:

So, to recap -

Old valve from Haas = $100, but not available.
Replacement valve from Haas = $275, and same as old valve.

Actual valve on the open market = ~ $35.00.

I could go on and on about other fiascos with them, but I have better things to do.

And they wonder why people are leaving in droves. So, yeah - I'd be in for that.
 
Well, what about you, me, and the thousand other Haas owners on this site?

I am in. I just don't have much time to invest. But, if you need a voice? I don't mind yelling at ignorant people at all.
Quite honestly though, it is easier to move on. And, much more satisfying if it hurts their bottom line!
 
If someone wants to "Upgrade" their machine...by all means please do so and I am glad Haas has put out a kit to allow them to do this.

I do not need All those expensive components on my old machines...could care less if screen is mono-chrome or has a curved Ultra high definition backlit LCD screen.

Me, I just want to keep the older machines running like they have been till I decide to trade it in / sell it for a new one.

A new machine will have ALL the upgrades in addition will have several more. The person that buys the old Haas could have a nice stepping stone machine leading them into a new machine when times right.

Make me pay 15k to repair a 91 machine, a 95 machine, a 98 machine is telling me do not look at their 2018's. A shame too as the TWO 2017's I bought last year are pretty good and was looking to update the older ones as room is scarce for more, but need more capacity.

The way they handle this determines if next machine will be another Haas or the Okuma I was ready to pull trigger on....but Doosan is looking real good too.

And, if it was Fanuc equipped, you would be able to do just that!
4.5 years ago, I had a spindle drive in a 1983 Nakamura-tome Slant-1 fail. I called Fanuc to weigh my options. I could still buy that drive brand new!!!!
It was expensive. But, I could buy it! I could also install it myself without voiding the warranty.
And, it offered me a solution that could have had me up and running in two days max. This is usually the kicker. Machines hardly ever fail at a "good time".
That is the kind of support that drives brand loyalty. And, gives a company staying-power.
In that example, it actually was not an emergency. I was able to get that drive repaired. It took a couple weeks. But, that was okay.

If, a main-con board fails in any pre-mid-08" HAAS, you are at their mercy. It could be quicker and cheaper to buy a different machine!
I would buy a different machine in a heartbeat if it saves my relationship with one of my customers! There is a reason I am shopping!
I am even looking at brand-new machines. And, HAAS is NOT! nor will ever again be, a considered brand.

Pay careful attention to the fact that I said pre-mid-08'. That is only 10 years old. Nothing is "obsolete"! (that they don't want to be obsolete)
 








 
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