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Manufacturing Job Descriptions and Estimated Salary Ranges

Here is the same example, if I buy some wood working tools from Home Depot, and make a cutting board, and it sells well, and I make a shit ton of money, start a Youtube channel show others how I made a shit ton of money making this cutting board, and I have been mamking it for 15 years, and you can too.
And then people start to label me as a high level wood worker, or a master craftsman, that's just craziness. An unearned label.
I fix my own car all the time, I have 10's of thousands of dollars in tools, I use a thousand dollar diagnostic scan tool.....If I started a Youtube channel showing other how to fix their cars also, I'm sorry but I would not, and this does not label me as a mechanic. I know plenty of mechanics and would never take away from the skills, efforts, training....they have, Sure I work on a car and have a channel helping others, but I would not be a actual "mechanic"

I am a machinist, I do engineering, I offer engineering services, but I have worked and have friends who are Engineers and the amount of education they have in certain physics sets are past the certain ones I have, SO I would not lower their status by claiming we were the same claiming I was an engineer.

Its not elitist, it just is, what it is.
thats a TERRIBLE example. a cutting board is thousands of orders of magnitude easier to design and build than folding knives, pens etc. he's able to design his own parts, program them, set them up, inspect, what about that is not being a machinist? you're literally blowing my mind right now with this ignorance.
 
Actually here is another example that may make sense.
I have customers that will want me to "design" them an injection mold, and machine it.
They know with my background, training, experience.....that the mold will work, be done quick, no problems....and no actual engineering done.
But I have other customers " where their management demands the molds be "engineered"
I charge more money because I have to use $30k software to insert and implement CFD mold flow analytics, this is time consuming but will produce a metric that the customer feels more comfortable with than just my opinion and experience,
the act of implementing and form of engineering, maths, some form of proofing of the outcome.
Some of the Chinese mold manufacturers will not even accept a mold desing without an engineering metric printout with it to better guarantee what they machine will work, and its not just a trial and error guess by a designer.
 
Like I said I agree with you on this, isolating out tasks and labeling them for differing pay, 100% correct. In the instance I was working as a "Manufacturing Engineer" done it before, its my nature now, and after that "Production Engineer"
So I agree, they type of work I was doing was exactly that.



I don't disagree he/they did all these things at all, and if this was his/their job all day, yes the pay that fits, what I would say if he has no background or training in these fields and so with minimal education or skills in this area I am sure all he did was in trial and error and opinion, but that is not what an engineer does, the purpose of hiring the engineer is that his skill set, knowledge, back ground, software's, training...are what you pay for to minimize the trial and error and implement things based on engineering metrics, to shorten this time frame and better guarantee the outcome, not trial and error.
We do a similar thing in injection molding, some injection molds machine shops just machine the injection molds as the CAD models they get.
If they offer injection mold "design" then someone with a lot of background and skill and "design" the injection mold that the tool and die machinist machines.
This "designed" injection mold was made from his many years of background.
When I was new I did not have this vast background, so was incapable of "designing" a mold in thin air, where no trial and error was allowed, I had to make sure my mold would work, there for I had to "engineer" them
which meant I had to "design" then mold, then do math calculations on runners, gates, temps...I had to implement computational fluid dynamics simulations to ensure proper flow, had to check sims for air vents, bend, twist, sink, weld line, meld lines....
I had to use "engineering" to ensure that the mold wold work.
The more highly trained highly skilled trainer could do it with out all that "engineering" because he had learned and could just do it.
This is my same principle as the Youtuber, they just don't have the long skilled background to fit the label, nor was the work they did engineering, but trial and error.
If any of this makes sense, haha
do you actually know what they teach in engineering classes? 99% of it is theory, which isnt in itself a bad thing at all, but as we all know - almost irrelevant in the real world if you dont know how to apply it. i would argue the opposite, that someone that's learned things through their own trial and error - are MUCH better engineers that just got a piece of paper.
personally i dont call myself an engineer, and technically not even a machinist, but i dont really care about my title, i get paid for what i provide, not what anyone calls me. i straight up design components and assemblies for our company, right along with full fledged, degree'd engineers - often times fixing their mistakes. my understanding of how things work are very close to theirs, the only place i cant hang is formulas.
same with machining, i learned by trial and error - started out as a welder working at a shop that had an old fadal, stayed after hours watching the owner's son playing with it, learning. never went to any formal training program or school, yet i'm now running the entire machining department at our company, procuring over 3 million dollars worth of equipment needed for our purposes, where everyone relies on me and my experience to do whatever it takes to make the parts we need. by your account i'm not a machinist either... lol

this kind of view is whats wrong with our society - where a piece of paper is held in higher regard than real world experience. absolute joke.
 
thats a TERRIBLE example. a cutting board is thousands of orders of magnitude easier to design and build than folding knives, pens etc. he's able to design his own parts, program them, set them up, inspect, what about that is not being a machinist? you're literally blowing my mind right now with this ignorance.
Why you getting so worked up, relax brotha. And I too could say that you are the ignorant one, you are the one that is not understanding the difference. Not to be rude but are you young, a millennial, say younger than mid 30's, that would explain a lot. haha just fkn with yah.
 
do you actually know what they teach in engineering classes? 99% of it is theory, which isnt in itself a bad thing at all, but as we all know - almost irrelevant in the real world if you dont know how to apply it. i would argue the opposite, that someone that's learned things through their own trial and error - are MUCH better engineers that just got a piece of paper.
personally i dont call myself an engineer, and technically not even a machinist, but i dont really care about my title, i get paid for what i provide, not what anyone calls me. i straight up design components and assemblies for our company, right along with full fledged, degree'd engineers - often times fixing their mistakes. my understanding of how things work are very close to theirs, the only place i cant hang is formulas.
same with machining, i learned by trial and error - started out as a welder working at a shop that had an old fadal, stayed after hours watching the owner's son playing with it, learning. never went to any formal training program or school, yet i'm now running the entire machining department at our company, procuring over 3 million dollars worth of equipment needed for our purposes, where everyone relies on me and my experience to do whatever it takes to make the parts we need. by your account i'm not a machinist either... lol

this kind of view is whats wrong with our society - where a piece of paper is held in higher regard than real world experience. absolute joke.
I actually think you might want to look up engineering as it applies to our field, say mechanical, manufacturing, production engineers.
you are extremely misplacing "design" with "engineer"
you cant hang with them on the formulas, that's all they do.
engineers for the most part implement things, and track metrics, that's it, for the most part.
you "design" parts, unless you are using some metrics to guarantee their outcome, feel me?
 
Why you getting so worked up, relax brotha. And I too could say that you are the ignorant one, you are the one that is not understanding the difference. Not to be rude but are you young, a millennial, say younger than mid 30's, that would explain a lot. haha just fkn with yah.
you'd be wrong, not completely, but i just hit 40's.

lay it out for me like i'm stupid. what makes someone a machinist or not? what kind of formal training is required for that? from who? do i have to have a piece of paper?

in my view - anyone that is capable of taking a print/model and making parts that conform to the requirements - is a legitimate machinist. why does it matter how they got to that point?
 
you'd be wrong, not completely, but i just hit 40's.

lay it out for me like i'm stupid. what makes someone a machinist or not? what kind of formal training is required for that? from who? do i have to have a piece of paper?

in my view - anyone that is capable of taking a print/model and making parts that conform to the requirements - is a legitimate machinist. why does it matter how they got to that point?

I am not a machinist. for the past 15 year I have had some cnc machines, I program and make stuff on them, I also design items, that I make or other people manufacture, but I am not an engineer. I use past experience or things I have seen work to base my designs off of...

but in all reality I am a licensed electrician and have been for 21 years now. It's what I did my apprenticeship in, did my tests, and got my certification in. I just happen to design and make things with cnc machines. I wouldn't say I am a machinist when most of my machine work is coming from my own best guesses, lots of mistakes, internet research, and when i am stuck asking people with more experience then I have.
 
I don't disagree he/they did all these things at all, and if this was his/their job all day, yes the pay that fits, what I would say if he has no background or training in these fields and so with minimal education or skills in this area I am sure all he did was in trial and error and opinion, but that is not what an engineer does, the purpose of hiring the engineer is that his skill set, knowledge, back ground, software's, training...are what you pay for to minimize the trial and error and implement things based on engineering metrics, to shorten this time frame and better guarantee the outcome, not trial and error.

Yes, these are things one would expect from an engineer. Too bad that all too often you don't get it from them. There are exceptions. What I've found in a situation like you're describing there is you end up hiring someone who has paid for a seat of the mold flow analysis software and they either know how to use it properly or they pretend that they do. Who is more likely to do a good job on a mold, you or a guy with a PhD in mechanical engineering and 30 years experience, who has never done molds but, has the software and the education? If you think it's the engineer, you'd be very, very wrong.

Let me be clear: I'm propping you up, patting you on the back and telling you that you're doing the job. Yes, it would be awesome if you had the piece of paper that you think you should have to back up that title. All too often, the people who have that piece of paper mostly gave up learning when they left school and they probably don't know what you know with respect to the modern tools.
 
you'd be wrong, not completely, but i just hit 40's.

lay it out for me like i'm stupid. what makes someone a machinist or not? what kind of formal training is required for that? from who? do i have to have a piece of paper?

in my view - anyone that is capable of taking a print/model and making parts that conform to the requirements - is a legitimate machinist. why does it matter how they got to that point?
Nice old man, haha I'm 50, fuk I'm old :(
I would have to say the difference is in the "size of their background skill set".
My son has been helping me for a couple years, he can do everything, button push, setup, program (with help from feed and speed calculators)
but he lacks the volume of skills to actually be labeled a machinist, you cant give him anything and he can do it.
fixturing skills for one take time to develop, he is just not there.
but luckily there is someone to show him.
These Youtubers not only lack the volume of skills, and it is strange, but they dont hire machinists also, from what I know neither Saunders nor Grimsmo have hired machinists, they train non-machinists.
 
Nice old man, haha I'm 50, fuk I'm old :(
I would have to say the difference is in the "size of their background skill set".
My son has been helping me for a couple years, he can do everything, button push, setup, program (with help from feed and speed calculators)
but he lacks the volume of skills to actually be labeled a machinist, you cant give him anything and he can do it.
fixturing skills for one take time to develop, he is just not there.
but luckily there is someone to show him.
These Youtubers not only lack the volume of skills, and it is strange, but they dont hire machinists also, from what I know neither Saunders nor have hired machinists, they train non-machinists.

Grimsmo and especially Saunders is an interesting watch if you started seeing their videos from way back in the day. I would say they are are entrepreneurs that found something that is working for them, I would not call them machinist.
 
Yes, these are things one would expect from an engineer. Too bad that all too often you don't get it from them. There are exceptions. What I've found in a situation like you're describing there is you end up hiring someone who has paid for a seat of the mold flow analysis software and they either know how to use it properly or they pretend that they do. Who is more likely to do a good job on a mold, you or a guy with a PhD in mechanical engineering and 30 years experience, who has never done molds but, has the software and the education? If you think it's the engineer, you'd be very, very wrong.

Oh Im not disagreeing at all, like you know, the label of an "engineer" is not what people think it is, most confuse it with a designer, but also even lesser minded people pay their shcool bills and get a piece of paper, doesnt mean they are smart.
I have worked with some of the most non intelligent people in the dental filed with medical degrees, a degree, isn't intelligence its time served with payment.
Let me be clear: I'm propping you up, patting you on the back and telling you that you're doing the job. Yes, it would be awesome if you had the piece of paper that you think you should have to back up that title. All too often, the people who have that piece of paper mostly gave up learning when they left school and they probably don't know what you know with respect to the modern tools.

We hired a mechanical engineer with a BS, owner thought he would add a lot to the tool and die machine shop, I already knew he wouldn't, because I actually understand what engineers do.
all the guy wanted to do was get metrics on stuff track it and optimize it. even at a loss $$, because implementing, and tracking metrics is the main job for them.
 
Nice old man, haha I'm 50, fuk I'm old :(
I would have to say the difference is in the "size of their background skill set".
My son has been helping me for a couple years, he can do everything, button push, setup, program (with help from feed and speed calculators)
but he lacks the volume of skills to actually be labeled a machinist, you cant give him anything and he can do it.
fixturing skills for one take time to develop, he is just not there.
but luckily there is someone to show him.
These Youtubers not only lack the volume of skills, and it is strange, but they dont hire machinists also, from what I know neither Saunders nor Grimsmo have hired machinists, they train non-machinists.
you are so wrong about grimsmo... which videos of his have you watched, if any?

he literally can program, and routinely does, lathes, 3 axis mills, 5 axis mills, designs and builds his own fixturing, sets up tool monitoring, you name it. everything i know how to do, he does, likely even better than i do.
so am i not a machinist? or is the differentiation here just the fact that he posts videos on youtube?
 
you are so wrong about grimsmo... which videos of his have you watched, if any?

he literally can program, and routinely does, lathes, 3 axis mills, 5 axis mills, designs and builds his own fixturing, sets up tool monitoring, you name it. everything i know how to do, he does, likely even better than i do.
so am i not a machinist? or is the differentiation here just the fact that he posts videos on youtube?
Over time anyone can do anything with low efficiency, I'll bet you or I could do anything we put our minds too, but that doesn then give you that label.
If I repair or even redo my roof, it doesn't make me a roofer.
Re-pouring concrete steps, doesn't make me a mason.
I helped a guy build a log cabin, doesnt make me a framer.......
Just because he bought some machines, programmed them to make a very select amount of parts with a very few different materials using trial and error because he lacked the training, doesn't them make him a machinist.
Nor does anyone doing anything with a small set give them the ability to call themselves that label.
He is a entrepreneur who owns a manufacturing facility, this is his label.
 
Over time anyone can do anything with low efficiency, I'll bet you or I could do anything we put our minds too, but that doesn then give you that label.
If I repair or even redo my roof, it doesn't make me a roofer.
Re-pouring concrete steps, doesn't make me a mason.
I helped a guy build a log cabin, doesnt make me a framer.......
Just because he bought some machines, programmed them to make a very select amount of parts with a very few different materials using trial and error because he lacked the training, doesn't them make him a machinist.
Nor does anyone doing anything with a small set give them the ability to call themselves that label.
He is a entrepreneur who owns a manufacturing facility, this is his label.
so i'll ask the question again, what makes a machinist?
 

Here in Canada its this...​

"The program​

The machinist apprenticeship requires in-school training and time spent on the job. A Machinist apprentice must complete a four-year program consisting of 870 in-school hours of training and 6,330 workplace hours. After completion of training, a passing grade on the interprovincial exam will result in the B.C. Certificate of Apprenticeship, the B.C. Certificate of Qualification, and the Interprovincial Standard Endorsement, also known as Red Seal."
 
Over time anyone can do anything with low efficiency, I'll bet you or I could do anything we put our minds too, but that doesn then give you that label.
Okay, what do you call it when an engineer, with the degree and the title, can make parts faster, and to higher quality, in their own CNC machine lab? Let's say Haas and Mastercam for sake of this argument. They demonstrate over and over, an ability to smash everything that manufacturing said they can't do and held tolerances that Manufacturing wouldn't. Is that person a machinist?
 
Okay, what do you call it when an engineer, with the degree and the title, can make parts faster, and to higher quality, in their own CNC machine lab? Let's say Haas and Mastercam for sake of this argument. They demonstrate over and over, an ability to smash everything that manufacturing said they can't do and held tolerances that Manufacturing wouldn't. Is that person a machinist?
clearly that guy is just a baffoon...
 
Okay, what do you call it when an engineer, with the degree and the title, can make parts faster, and to higher quality, in their own CNC machine lab? Let's say Haas and Mastercam for sake of this argument. They demonstrate over and over, an ability to smash everything that manufacturing said they can't do and held tolerances that Manufacturing wouldn't. Is that person a machinist?
Haha, trick question, not a machinist.
When I was little I went to a bike track a few times, I was light but long, strength to weight ratio was way off, I didn't know anything about the techniques of racing, but wooped,
took first place every race.
But I wasn't a BMX racer. I was just a kid who could beat you in a race.
The same way I can fix my car every time it breaks down, but I am not a mechanic.
I lack the large varied skill set that defines that label.
and respect those who have taken the time to gather such knowledge as to gain what ever label they have attained.
 
the difference is you're making a judgement about someone else here, someone you clearly know very little about/his skills and capabilities.
 








 
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