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Matsuura MC-660-VG ATC error

Antoine21130

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 19, 2023
Hello everyone,

Still struggling with the tool changer on a Matsuura MC-660-VG with J300 controls and 30 tool capacity :

When trying a tool change in high speed, the ATC inverter overload before grabbing the tool (even with no tool in spindle or selected pocket).

In “heavy tool mode” where everything move slowly, there is a really strange behavior :

Without any tools either in spindle or pocket, the tool change cycle goes well until the end.
When I have a tool in the spindle, the tool change goes well until the last 60 degrees rotation : the arm then stops just a millimeter away from the arm home sensor. A timeout error then triggers because J300 is waiting for the Arm home sensor.

Another precision : after the timeout error, I do the recovery process (I can do it with closed eyes now after having done it hundred times 🥲). If I do the recovery process in CW direction, the arm only move about 1mm until it get to the Arm home sensor. Next tool changes after that never works, with or without tools.

If I do the recovery process in the CCW direction (cylinder goes down and arm make a complete 180 deg rotation) the next tool changes work perfectly but only if I don’t have any tools either in spindle or pocket side.

I’ve checked clamp signal and sensors inputs and everything respond correctly.

I can’t understand why the motor stop just before reaching the homing sensor and I also don’t understand why the inverter overload when in high speed mode. Recovery rotational direction effect is another thing I cannot understand.

By the way, I’ve also checked alignement of arm which is OK. Also checked phase wiring.

All others problem on that machine are now solved so it makes me really sad to have that last issue unresolved :(
 
That is very very weird, I can not figure what troubleshooting steps to take when I am not on-site. I am no cnc-tech, but have done fair deal in industrial automation. Inverter settings are ok? Do you have video of process? Also location is France or Canada?
 
Yeah that’s a really tough one to solve !

I’ve checked inverter settings and everything is set as it should (I have all the docs and full manuals). Also checked the timing parameters and all ATC related parameters in the J300.

The only thing I’m not sure about is the role of the hydraulic cylinder at top of the ATC mechanism (next to the up/down cylinder).

There is also what seems like an hydraulic cylinder just next to the arm.

When rotating motor by hand (everything shut down) there is a position where I can make 2-3 turns without the arm moving at all. Maybe that’s a normal behavior of the cam mechanism ?

I will upload a full vid of the issue tomorrow and send the link here.

And location is France
 
Here is the behavior with a tool (it alarms out at end of video because the arm stopped 1mm before arm home position)

And here is the behavior in high speed mode (overload at ATC motor driver)
 
I dont remember if there is a sensor or cam switch, if it is mechanical it may be sticky from old grease and coolant and not release fast enough on end of travel. And your ATC is double speed of mine. My have exact same everything but it's speed is like your heavy mode.

your location is Canada or France/belgium?
 
And location is France
I can come and visit? :D

I dont remember if there is a sensor or cam switch, if it is mechanical it may be sticky from old grease and coolant and not release fast enough on end of travel. And your ATC is double speed of mine. My have exact same everything but it's speed is like your heavy mode all the time.
 
They are inductive sensors, I tried moving the home sensor dog a little and it improved a lot ! Now I only have errors every 5-6 tool changes, I think there is a mechanical backlash in the cam system and sometime it doesn’t reach the inductive sensor.
This afternoon I will machine a 1mm longer dog sensor to hopefully counteract the issue.
And of course you can come haha. We’re manufacturing fiber laser cutter and laser engravers for industrial purposes.
 
They are inductive sensors, I tried moving the home sensor dog a little and it improved a lot ! Now I only have errors every 5-6 tool changes, I think there is a mechanical backlash in the cam system and sometime it doesn’t reach the inductive sensor.
This afternoon I will machine a 1mm longer dog sensor to hopefully counteract the issue.
And of course you can come haha. We’re manufacturing fiber laser cutter and laser engravers for industrial purposes.
Which part fo France? Planning car trip for summer, may be treating myself visiting cool places.
 
I worked for Matsuura for a while. I didn't see every problem that can occur with a tool changer, I did swap out a few worn cam drums and replaced a lot of the followers that rode in the cam drum. I also remember an issue they had with a customer who ran thru the tool oil and had a problem flinging tools, the oil would get on the tool shank and cause the tool to stick, just a small amount , throwing the sequence off. I'd check the followers in the cam drum.
 
So I've made an extended DOG piece (4mm longer than original one) for the home sensor of ATC arm. It only added an offset to the issue so I've ruled out the ATC backlash idea.

Sometimes, the inductive sensor turn to red when arm return to home, and on next tool change cycle it can either turn green or red again or turn off (triggering a timeout error when it turn off).

I think that maybe the inductive sensor is defective as i don't understand how the motor could stop just before the sensor every time the issue happen.
 
I worked for Matsuura for a while. I didn't see every problem that can occur with a tool changer, I did swap out a few worn cam drums and replaced a lot of the followers that rode in the cam drum. I also remember an issue they had with a customer who ran thru the tool oil and had a problem flinging tools, the oil would get on the tool shank and cause the tool to stick, just a small amount , throwing the sequence off. I'd check the followers in the cam drum.
Already checked follower and it seems to be OK but thanks, that's some nice info to have !
 
I can come and visit? :D

I dont remember if there is a sensor or cam switch, if it is mechanical it may be sticky from old grease and coolant and not release fast enough on end of travel. And your ATC is double speed of mine. My have exact same everything but it's speed is like your heavy mode all the time.
What’s the frequency setting on your ATC VFD ? I think it can also be the arm that bounce back just a little when breaking from sensing the ATC arm home sensor, that would also explain why adding 4mm distance on the dog just triggered the same issue with a little offset. I will try to lower the ATC speed to check if it change anything.
 
Problem is solved !!

Adjusted parameter pm7096 from 100 to 110 (it added 40ms to the motor command when returning to atc arm home sensor).

The problem was that motor was shutting off just before reaching the SQ20 atc home sensor. By adujsting pm7096, it enable the motor 40ms longer and now the atc arm dog is always in front of SQ20 sensor.

Maybe there is some wear in the mechanical assembly so that's explain why I need a little more time with motor on to correctly reach the home sensor.

Thanks a lot to everyone who helped on this tough one ! Lot of nice guys on this forum :)
 
Yeah no problem. Will send you all the parameters tomorrow. You will have to adjust frequency parameters in the VFD but I also think you will have to adjust a timer like I needed to do on mine. Your timing will be off if you don’t adjust it will changing the VFD command frequency.
 
Now i want your ATC vfd parameters, as mine is slow AF compared to yours on same hardware
Sorry for the late reply, here are all the parameters :)

I think you should look for the multistep frequency (different frequency for heavy tool mode, normal mode, recovery mode.

Don’t forget to change timings if you have issues with the sequence.
 

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