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Medical or Aerospace Certification worth it?

The question, should I look to start buying higher end, tighter tolerance capable, expensive $$$ machines, CMM's, get certifications ISO9001, AS9100...and try to switch over to the high end machining markets and separate our business from the guy in his garage..
but also with that which Aerospace or medical? or both
There are plenty of guys in their garage doing ALL this.

I was just asked to get at least ISO compliant and work towards getting certified ISO9001 and AS9100.

You don’t need expensive machines or CMM’s. I do not have “expensive machines” by any means and 95% of my work is Aerospace, I also do work for some top defense companies. Not one of my customers have any clue what brand or type of machine I have, or what any of my equipment costs.

What do you think, you are going to do, reach out to a customer and start a conversation with I have this XXX machine and paid $800k for it, give me work? I don’t see that happening, a lot of risk, even a $200k machine, I don’t even have $200k invested in my 4 machines.

You have to start somewhere though, I just wouldn’t recommend investing that amount of money into equipment unless the work is there already. You can build up to it if and when it comes.
 
The majority of my income came from working on development of medical devices. No certification was ever required and wouldn't have helped to get it. Production of medical devices is a totally different issue, the FDA will be all over you in that case.
 
How are small job shops ruining standard job shop demographics?
Not a criticism, just an observation. Garage, barn, outbuilding shops are possible in some parts of the country and not in others (metro). There's the obvious cost of rent. Then the landlords often require proof of paid business insurance with the lease renewal every year. It covers them if you burn down the the building or damage other tenants. Someone has to pay for that and it makes sense I guess.

Then if you're in a business unit like that with a city fire department, they'll be up in your business about fire escapes, panel separations, storage of everything, your extinguishers, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't do these things but, they're like a mafia and you pay them a tribute every year and fines on top of it for anything you're doing wrong. The city will want their business taxes and will be in to inventory and send you a property bill every year.

Even for a 1,000 SF shop, there might be a fixed $2,000-3,000 per month of expenses before the first spindle gets switched on. 173 average hours per month, puts that at $11.56-17.34 an hour burden before you even start. In a shop in a steel building behind the house, some or most of that can either go in their pocket or be used to undersell the shop over the hill that operates "in town."
 
Not a criticism, just an observation. Garage, barn, outbuilding shops are possible in some parts of the country and not in others (metro). There's the obvious cost of rent. Then the landlords often require proof of paid business insurance with the lease renewal every year. It covers them if you burn down the the building or damage other tenants. Someone has to pay for that and it makes sense I guess. Then if you're in a business unit like that with a city fire department, they'll be up in your business about fire escapes, panel separations, storage of everything, your extinguishers, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't do these things but, they're like a mafia and you pay them a tribute every year and fines on top of it for anything you're doing wrong. The city will want their business taxes and will be in to inventory and send you a property bill every year.

Even for a 1,000 SF shop, there might be a fixed $2,000-3,000 per month of expenses before the first spindle gets switched on. 173 average hours per month, puts that at $11.56-17.34 an hour burden before you even start. In a shop in a steel building behind the house, some or most of that can either go in their pocket or be used to undersell the shop over the hill that operates "in town."
Maybe I am just not understanding what you are saying, but I guess I still don't understand how it is "ruining" if anything I would say its smart business to eliminate your whole first paragraph, which sounds like 100 reasons why garage, bar, outbuildings is in fact smart for business if an owner is in a position to do so. And not all "home shops" are necessarily small. I have a machine shop down the road from me, they have been in business for 30+ years on their home property with a 15,000 sq ft building, shit they even have their own private golf course! All medical device, they are certified, ISO9001, AS9100. They do have a high end mill turn they added a few years ago but other than that they have HAAS vertical mills, and HAAS turning centers.

I also own another business where we lease a space, its a store front business and everything you stated in that first paragraph is a damn hassle an pain to deal with. I've had to deal with the city fire inspector on numerous occasions and its always a "here we go"

Understandably as you stated, it isn't always possible in some parts of the country, state, counties.

If you are in any position to undersell a shop down the road because you have less overhead, I would also call that smart business, lessen your financial burden is the best thing any business owner can do.
I'm not saying you are criticizing home shops in any way but I have read a lot of people that have and say it is "ruining" our industry and making it a race to the bottom. For me, I am in a 1800 sq ft building on my home property, I built this building in 2019, it's paid for in full, I have practically ZERO overhead and my utilities (Gas, electric) are less than $400/month, why would I ever consider leasing a building for $3000/month and tripling my utility cost? It makes absolutely no sense, for me. It is not in anyway my fault that the guy "in town" has $10k in operating expenses a month bidding against me with 5% of that and I have a slightly lower hourly rate, that does not make it a race to the bottom. We could be making the same profit on every job, but unfortunately for him he has 20x more that he has to pay out for overhead costs to operate.
 
Not a criticism, just an observation. Garage, barn, outbuilding shops are possible in some parts of the country and not in others (metro). There's the obvious cost of rent. Then the landlords often require proof of paid business insurance with the lease renewal every year. It covers them if you burn down the the building or damage other tenants. Someone has to pay for that and it makes sense I guess.

-cost of shop rent 100%
-renting a shop you need insurance
-garage shop you need insurance also, if your home loan finds out you have a machine shop in your garage they more than likely will cancel your insurance ( I asked my home insurance company)

Then if you're in a business unit like that with a city fire department, they'll be up in your business about fire escapes, panel separations, storage of everything, your extinguishers, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't do these things but, they're like a mafia and you pay them a tribute every year and fines on top of it for anything you're doing wrong. The city will want their business taxes and will be in to inventory and send you a property bill every year.

-All the fire dept. has ever done that I have ever seen in 30 years is check the date on the fire extinguishers, varies by city and your fire dept inspector though obviously.

Even for a 1,000 SF shop, there might be a fixed $2,000-3,000 per month of expenses before the first spindle gets switched on. 173 average hours per month, puts that at $11.56-17.34 an hour burden before you even start. In a shop in a steel building behind the house, some or most of that can either go in their pocket or be used to undersell the shop over the hill that operates "in town."

-My 1200 sq ft shop was $1200 first and last, that's it. @ $600 per day, per machine, that was less than one day of work to pay for the shop.
 
Maybe I am just not understanding what you are saying, but I guess I still don't understand how it is "ruining" if anything I would say its smart business to eliminate your whole first paragraph, which sounds like 100 reasons why garage, bar, outbuildings is in fact smart for business if an owner is in a position to do so.
Yes, except that clueless buyers will send out jobs for quote. They'll get a price from some dude in a corn field and use it as leverage against the shop five minutes away, in the nice business park. They don't want to do business in a field. Buyers don't know machines, or machining, or inspection, or anything else. They know they want to go visit a supplier that's on their approved list and get Starbucks on the way.

And not all "home shops" are necessarily small. I have a machine shop down the road from me, they have been in business for 30+ years on their home property with a 15,000 sq ft building, shit they even have their own private golf course!
Totally get it. Not possible within 150 miles of metro Los Angeles (as an example). We had a supplier in Kansas City that was not in a field outside of town. I found that a little odd. It was an older, kinda' beat up building but, not taking advantage of all the rural space around them.

I'm not saying you are criticizing home shops in any way but I have read a lot of people that have and say it is "ruining" our industry and making it a race to the bottom.

I was pointing it out for the people who don't know or understand. I didn't know your particular business situation. This kinda' dovetails into my thread on skills and labor costs: most employees don't have any feel for what it costs their boss to keep the doors open. They think the shop rate is $100/hour and anything above their pay must go in the owner's pocket.
 
-My 1200 sq ft shop was $1200 first and last, that's it. @ $600 per day, per machine, that was less than one day of work to pay for the shop.
Around here (north Los Angeles county, in the god forsaken desert) its around a buck a foot for anything inhabitable (has heat and a flush toilet--not kidding).
 
Maybe I am just not understanding what you are saying, but I guess I still don't understand how it is "ruining" if anything I would say its smart business to eliminate your whole first paragraph, which sounds like 100 reasons why garage, bar, outbuildings is in fact smart for business if an owner is in a position to do so. And not all "home shops" are necessarily small. I have a machine shop down the road from me, they have been in business for 30+ years on their home property with a 15,000 sq ft building, shit they even have their own private golf course! All medical device, they are certified, ISO9001, AS9100. They do have a high end mill turn they added a few years ago but other than that they have HAAS vertical mills, and HAAS turning centers.

I also own another business where we lease a space, its a store front business and everything you stated in that first paragraph is a damn hassle an pain to deal with. I've had to deal with the city fire inspector on numerous occasions and its always a "here we go"

Understandably as you stated, it isn't always possible in some parts of the country, state, counties.

If you are in any position to undersell a shop down the road because you have less overhead, I would also call that smart business, lessen your financial burden is the best thing any business owner can do.
I'm not saying you are criticizing home shops in any way but I have read a lot of people that have and say it is "ruining" our industry and making it a race to the bottom. For me, I am in a 1800 sq ft building on my home property, I built this building in 2019, it's paid for in full, I have practically ZERO overhead and my utilities (Gas, electric) are less than $400/month, why would I ever consider leasing a building for $3000/month and tripling my utility cost? It makes absolutely no sense, for me. It is not in anyway my fault that the guy "in town" has $10k in operating expenses a month bidding against me with 5% of that and I have a slightly lower hourly rate, that does not make it a race to the bottom. We could be making the same profit on every job, but unfortunately for him he has 20x more that he has to pay out for overhead costs to operate.
I would agree with others that the cost differential of a small shop in the city or an outbuilding in the countryside is minimal if you compare apples to apples. Maybe 1000 bucks a month at most. I would rather be located in the city near my customers at that point. The real potential for cost savings is in labor. While rent is maybe 3k/month in the city, even one machinist could cost you over 10k per month. Hiring one employee over quadruples your monthly expenses! If the guy out in the midwest can pay 5k/month for the same machinist, then he's really giving you a run for your money.
 
I would agree with others that the cost differential of a small shop in the city or an outbuilding in the countryside is minimal if you compare apples to apples. Maybe 1000 bucks a month at most. I would rather be located in the city near my customers at that point. The real potential for cost savings is in labor. While rent is maybe 3k/month in the city, even one machinist could cost you over 10k per month. Hiring one employee over quadruples your monthly expenses! If the guy out in the midwest can pay 5k/month for the same machinist, then he's really giving you a run for your money.
There's a lot of depending factors for each individual business. As of this year I have been in business for 10 years, and have never had a customer do an on site visit. I'm actually only 45 minutes north of Minneapolis, so being in the city near my local customers would be an irrelevant factor, everything I do is shipped via UPS or local courier service unless I deliver myself which is rare.

My building is paid for, I do not have to pay any sort of mortgage, rent, lease, etc. If I was to rent a building, I'd be looking at $6-10/sq ft. getting closer to MPLS can push up to $15. I'm saving at least $30k a year on rent alone, that's $2500/month saved just on a building. Now everyone I have spoken to that owns a business in a commercial building with 3 phase power, pays over $1000/month, my highest electric bill since 2019 was $265. On average it's at $185/month. That's an additional $800/month saved on top of the $2500, so now in my situation I am saving $3200/month. I am on a well, so my water costs nothing, couldn't even tell you what a water bill costs, my natural gas is around $175/month. I am probably saving at least $4000/month, $48k a year.


EDIT: I just browsed, the two closest available industrial buildings to me come in at $6.50SF for 5000 SF and a 6400SF space for $9.50. So that's $32,500 to $60,800 year saved.
 
There's a lot of depending factors for each individual business. As of this year I have been in business for 10 years, and have never had a customer do an on site visit. I'm actually only 45 minutes north of Minneapolis, so being in the city near my local customers would be an irrelevant factor, everything I do is shipped via UPS or local courier service unless I deliver myself which is rare.

My building is paid for, I do not have to pay any sort of mortgage, rent, lease, etc. If I was to rent a building, I'd be looking at $6-10/sq ft. getting closer to MPLS can push up to $15. I'm saving at least $30k a year on rent alone, that's $2500/month saved just on a building. Now everyone I have spoken to that owns a business in a commercial building with 3 phase power, pays over $1000/month, my highest electric bill since 2019 was $265. On average it's at $185/month. That's an additional $800/month saved on top of the $2500, so now in my situation I am saving $3200/month. I am on a well, so my water costs nothing, couldn't even tell you what a water bill costs, my natural gas is around $175/month. I am probably saving at least $4000/month, $48k a year.


EDIT: I just browsed, the two closest available industrial buildings to me come in at $6.50SF for 5000 SF and a 6400SF space for $9.50. So that's $32,500 to $60,800 year saved.
That's why I said you have to compare apples to apples like rent vs rent or own vs own in the city or countryside. For what it's worth Marvel, I lease a place that's about the same size as yours in San Diego county for 2k/month and my utilities all in average to about 300/month. I'm pretty sure there is some sort of mistake in my favor for the utilities though. They might be averaging it with all the other units in the building or something because it really is unusually low.
 
That's why I said you have to compare apples to apples like rent vs rent or own vs own in the city or countryside. For what it's worth Marvel, I lease a place that's about the same size as yours in San Diego county for 2k/month and my utilities all in average to about 300/month.
That's not bad at all! My other business, a salon, in our first location we were paying $4500/month for a 1200 SF place and it's not even located in the cities! We've since moved it and cut rent in more than half, but that's some perspective for my area.

Obviously there are a lot of factors for each shop that can or cant make it possible. If you have customers that do frequent visit, of course you probably want something appealing.

I was more saying to the OP that you don't necessarily need "it all", high priced fancy machines, fancy building to set yourself apart from competition, I think more times than not now a days it comes down to building a reputation, proving yourself, proving your shop can make quality parts, on time, and communicate no different than a competing shop that does have "it all."
 
Quick question since I haven't worked at a shop in this field.
With the increasing number of small garage shops set out to increasingly ruin standard job shop demographics.
I am looking to where I want to direct my current investment as a small shop forward, but also possibly diversify those efforts and funds in the future.

For reference I do have a background as a tooling engineer/machinist, and have managed an injection molding shop also.
I also do have a background from the dental medical field, manufacturing titanium implant components and ceramic substructures.

The question, should I look to start buying higher end, tighter tolerance capable, expensive $$$ machines, CMM's, get certifications ISO9001, AS9100...and try to switch over to the high end machining markets and separate our business from the guy in his garage..
but also with that which Aerospace or medical? or both?

Would you more recommend instead the diversification of adding tooling manufacturing to our list, and start buying injection molding machines,sinker edm, wire edm... and have a more diversified investment over the aerospace/medical machining market.

I would like to get some experienced opinions on this from actual business owners.
Of your an established job shop with good processssband workflow, the question is how/why can a dude in a garage beat you?

I would assume you would have scale and efficiency in your corner whereas the one mans band is running around filling all the hats that he gets less done.

I am the one man band shop. It was horrible for jobbing. After a few years I said f it and went products only or bust.
When I worked at a bigger shop it was great for jobbing with an efficient workflow and acceptable capital inventment to pe prepared for “what came in the door at any hour”
 
Of your an established job shop with good processssband workflow, the question is how/why can a dude in a garage beat you?
They can't, but does your future customer know that?
I just want to space my investment further away from something I have seen happen in past industries.

I would assume you would have scale and efficiency in your corner whereas the one mans band is running around filling all the hats that he gets less done.

You are 100% on scale and efficiency setting it apart, but does your future customer know that?

I am the one man band shop. It was horrible for jobbing. After a few years I said f it and went products only or bust.
When I worked at a bigger shop it was great for jobbing with an efficient workflow and acceptable capital inventment to pe prepared for “what came in the door at any hour”

Currently it is huge in popularity to go get a machine and put it in your garage watch some Youtube videos, get a business license and away you go.
I have seen these types of things ruin an industry before, due to the shear volume of popularity, regardless of the low percentage of success.

Luckily in this instance, its not actually a machine shop we are looking at but a business, and regardless that the business is a machine shop, most businesses fail,
so that is a plus for this not to repeat things I've seen in the past.

It's also what makes me more so think my investment is probably better invested into an injection molding facility than an ISO tight tolerance 5 axis aero/medical machine shop for instance.
Friends I know with these business have higher profits, there is less competition, less skilled labor needed, cheaper robots..., and if you engineer and machine tooling in house larger advantage.

And the size, cost, and knowledge is further from being saturated with idiots manipulating the market,
Nobody is watching Titans of CNC ooohing and awwwing buying a giant injection molding machine, engineering injection molds, and luckily you cant put one in your garage with a rotary phase converter.
 
Of your an established job shop with good processssband workflow, the question is how/why can a dude in a garage beat you?

I would assume you would have scale and efficiency in your corner whereas the one mans band is running around filling all the hats that he gets less done.

I am the one man band shop. It was horrible for jobbing. After a few years I said f it and went products only or bust.
When I worked at a bigger shop it was great for jobbing with an efficient workflow and acceptable capital inventment to pe prepared for “what came in the door at any hour”
I would argue that there are actually negative economies of scale for job shops. There is a lot of overhead that comes with having employees and one man shops are able to avoid that. The ideal business is one with no employees at all and that is true for any field. Technology has made it so that running solo is not only possible, but actually more efficient. There is no waiting on someone else to finish their work. There are no meetings or miscommunications. With a little bit of organization, computers handle the paperwork and you are able to focus on running parts. CNCs are easier than ever to set up with probes and tool setters. Parts can come sawed to size if you don't want to waste time with that. Most job shop work left in the USA is for high end stuff like medical/aerospace/defense etc. That means that the quantities are pretty low. Not much need even for operators if most of the work is programming and setup. One man does it all. The guy in his garage also has processes and workflows and they're probably better than yours since he has to personally live with them.

I for one believe the trend in machining is to smaller and smaller shops. I've had employees before and it sucks. It's almost more work than it's worth. It only makes sense for high volume work where you have a very predictable income stream and very predictable costs. Job shop work is the opposite of that.
 
It's also what makes me more so think my investment is probably better invested into an injection molding facility than an ISO tight tolerance 5 axis aero/medical machine shop for instance.
This is something that I think you undervalue yourself on: injection molding technology and skills. That's a built-in niche market for you. Maybe it's also in medical? You should consider driving down to Anaheim in February for the big trade show at the convention center. It's four, co-located shows. One of the markets is medical.


While the exhibitors might be selling, just walking around and seeing what's offered, could give you some ideas of where you could specialize or even develop your own specialty. I'm thinking things like co-molding with metallic parts or multiple different plastics. The Plastec show is one of the others in the hall at the same time.

Maybe you could buy your own injection molding machine(s) and venture down that path of specializing in either finished products, taking overflow production for your customers and even offering consulting, design and manufacturing for the same customers. Now you're a trusted partner in their operations and making money from both manufacturing parts and molds.
 
This is something that I think you undervalue yourself on: injection molding technology and skills. That's a built-in niche market for you. Maybe it's also in medical? You should consider driving down to Anaheim in February for the big trade show at the convention center. It's four, co-located shows. One of the markets is medical.


While the exhibitors might be selling, just walking around and seeing what's offered, could give you some ideas of where you could specialize or even develop your own specialty. I'm thinking things like co-molding with metallic parts or multiple different plastics. The Plastec show is one of the others in the hall at the same time.

Maybe you could buy your own injection molding machine(s) and venture down that path of specializing in either finished products, taking overflow production for your customers and even offering consulting, design and manufacturing for the same customers. Now you're a trusted partner in their operations and making money from both manufacturing parts and molds.
In the past I did work in a niche need created similar to the one we now have for machining, exporting work to China cause its cheaper.
Most mass production goes to China, So did mass production injection molding, BUT
Companies needing smaller runs, fast turn around, on-demand inventories...all these types of companies cant go to China, BUT
they do want Chinese prices, HAHA of course you do!
This is where prototype or quick turn around injection molds come in, instead of a mold that costs $50k and takes 2+ months to make, and you get parts in 3 months,
you have a $15k mold, that takes 2 weeks, and its ran in house the day its finished.
 
I would assume you would have scale and efficiency in your corner whereas the one mans band is running around filling all the hats that he gets less done.
This is not necessarily true......................

I would argue that there are actually negative economies of scale for job shops. There is a lot of overhead that comes with having employees and one man shops are able to avoid that. The ideal business is one with no employees at all and that is true for any field. Technology has made it so that running solo is not only possible, but actually more efficient. There is no waiting on someone else to finish their work. There are no meetings or miscommunications. With a little bit of organization, computers handle the paperwork and you are able to focus on running parts. CNCs are easier than ever to set up with probes and tool setters. Parts can come sawed to size if you don't want to waste time with that. Most job shop work left in the USA is for high end stuff like medical/aerospace/defense etc. That means that the quantities are pretty low. Not much need even for operators if most of the work is programming and setup. One man does it all. The guy in his garage also has processes and workflows and they're probably better than yours since he has to personally live with them.

I for one believe the trend in machining is to smaller and smaller shops. I've had employees before and it sucks. It's almost more work than it's worth. It only makes sense for high volume work where you have a very predictable income stream and very predictable costs. Job shop work is the opposite of that.
This is 100% accurate, as a home shop I am not necessarily confined to business hours, or employees that need to leave or miss work. I can set up long cycle parts and run them practically 24 hours, 7 days a week with being in the shop very minimally, I have Chatter set up so I get notifications when my machines are done running or I set a timer.

I avoid saw cutting, I rarely order bar stock, I have a local material vendor I have cut all my material out of plate stock so its ready to go in the machine when it arrives, it is very rare I see a single part have over a quantity of 5. I rarely get production work. I currently have a PO with 65 different parts, all different sizes and a total of 85 parts, it will take me 3, maybe 4 days to finish this job. I received material in 3 days all cut to the size needed.

As far as efficiency I pre set my tools outside of the machines, the tool offset value is universal between my 2 vertical machines and 1 horizontal. My horizontal also has a 6 station pallet pool and as I said above, I don't get production so each pallet is a "set up" that allows me to go from set up to set up depending on the parts very efficiently with minimal change over. I haven't removed a vise from a machine in years and I built a process that allows me to rarely have to pick up a XY WCS because I know where everything is at in all 3 of my machines. I have multiple WCS saved in each machine, my horizontal actually has a probe and I have yet to use it because I don't ever pick up parts, I know where everything is.

I have fine tuned the automation portion in my CAM software so I can get through a lot of parts with never selecting features or changing parameters.
 
This has gotten OT, but people splitting hairs again, but ignoring where the splits are. My 2 cents on the OT topic.

A "garage" shop would be a guy at his house with all he could fit in a "garage" you can fit like 1 or 2 VMC's max, and its a one man show, check Youtube, there's a bunch of them.
A "small shop" could be at your house barn or large building, or renting/buying a offsite building, the difference would be in scale, larger than a "garage" shop.
I think people are stretching the definition of a "garage" to include things like large barns or buildings.

A "small shop" could be shit like the ones I've seen. 5 employee's, 4 old machines, no automation....similar,
or it could be NO employee's, 1 man show, 2 pallet loading 5 axis, and 2 pallet loading horizontals.

Now obviously the "small shop" with 1 employee running a handful of automated machines makes more money then the "small shop" with 5 employees.(If the machines are paid for, oops)
but in the hairs we are splitting, its in the one man show at his garage with 1 or 2 machines, and if he stays in his "garage" and doesn't expand to a "small shop", rather its move out, or build a building on your farm, it lacks the ability to scale.

We also have to consider when talking scale, a single machinist can only setup and run so many machines, I have found over the years depending on variables an average of 2-3 machines. So without employees you cant scale up past this, UNLESS.
You do everything automated, pallet loaded machines. I currently am a one man show with my son being trained, we have 5 machines, and could get 1 more with our available space, but we can only run 3 VMC's each, that's maxed out with being efficient. So with the high profits, and wanting scale without employees, we would be looking at pallet loading 5 axis, reduce setups and machine attendance, and horizontals with pallet pool, again reduce setups, but mostly reduce machine attendance.

Also you have to remember if its a 1 man show, you own a "job" not a "business", Sure you do business, yes, but you don't own a business. Why?
because once you are removed, don't work there, retire... there is no business,
you can't sell a job.
 
I avoid saw cutting, I rarely order bar stock, I have a local material vendor I have cut all my material out of plate stock so its ready to go in the machine when it arrives, it is very rare I see a single part have over a quantity of 5. I rarely get production work. I currently have a PO with 65 different parts, all different sizes and a total of 85 parts, it will take me 3, maybe 4 days to finish this job. I received material in 3 days all cut to the size needed.
Interesting, we do all this but backwards,
All our orders are repeat production, we do larger orders in the hundreds, with very little variation of different parts.
We bought a new Hydmech H14A all material arrives in full bar stock, because of this, I don't wait for 3 days for them to cut it up,
and my material is cheaper because, no cutting, and a lot of the same material I get material cost bulk discount,
my supplier guarantees material by the next day.
So I get material faster, cheaper, and get the job started and finished quicker.

Actually our saw is our favorite machine as far as gave us more efficiency, and saved us the most money, and the crazy thing within that statement is it was $60k.
 








 
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