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Medical or Aerospace Certification worth it?

Truth is depends on also what you willing to do with your $$$, I make too much profit, and messing around with used possibly broke or worn machines isn't worth.
I actually need to reduce my profits by buying machines, if not I have to give the government 30%+
It's just not worth it usually, unless your a small tight profit deal, managing larger shops I noticed the same thing, they were better off not buying a suspect piece of cheap equipment, and they needed large write offs yearly.
15 years ago when I first went into business I had the thought process to buy, buy, buy for write offs to keep from paying the government, I’ve changed that thought to now I invest it, unless of course something is needed for the business.

I find the mindset “oh it’s a write off” to be ridiculous.

I don’t spend money unless I need to and come this time of year I start running numbers and make end of year decisions to limit my tax liability. SEP IRA has been a great one to max out.
 
One could argue it’s just as risky either way starting a business with minimal funds whether you buy used or new. Either route what happens if you don’t have the work to support it and can’t make the payment on that new machine?

No matter which route one is to take they should have some sort of safety net.
Yeah really depends on how you started it, I had a big sweaty handful of customers and potential customers, it would be way more risky for me to have bought a used machine, and have it break, when I had a lot of work to do.
Everyone's gotta story, shit, to throw you the odd ball story, my first machine was a brand new VMC, that my employer bought for me, I rationalized the numbers vs a pay raise, they got a write off and I got a free new machine,
and it was at their shop. I paid ZERO doll hairs for my first rig.
 
15 years ago when I first went into business I had the thought process to buy, buy, buy for write offs to keep from paying the government, I’ve changed that thought to now I invest it, unless of course something is needed for the business.

I find the mindset “oh it’s a write off” to be ridiculous.

I don’t spend money unless I need to and come this time of year I start running numbers and make end of year decisions to limit my tax liability. SEP IRA has been a great one to max out.
You can also buy a building as a separate entity and rent it to your machine shop, start an entity that owns your machines, and then rent them out to your machine shop entity.
Have seen people do this often also.
 
Yeah really depends on how you started it, I had a big sweaty handful of customers and potential customers, it would be way more risky for me to have bought a used machine, and have it break, when I had a lot of work to do.
Everyone's gotta story, shit, to throw you the odd ball story, my first machine was a brand new VMC, that my employer bought for me, I rationalized the numbers vs a pay raise, they got a write off and I got a free new machine,
and it was at their shop. I paid ZERO doll hairs for my first rig.
Oh yea for sure, it’s different for everyone, every shop, I tried to express that earlier in this thread. There’s no right or wrong way.

I always told myself I needed to buy a new machine, couldn’t start with something used but I came across a great deal on a used VF2SS, I won’t say I didn’t have worries! Maybe I’ve just been lucky to have very minimal issues, I did have my spindle motor go on that after a couple years, HFO wanted $15k to come install a new motor. I pulled it myself on a Thursday evening, dropped it off at a local rebuild shop, they upgraded the bearing to higher rated ceramic bearings, cost me $2200 and I had it back in and running Monday.

I sent that invoice into my insurance/warranty company and they sent me a check.

But even new machines there’s risk and in my experience more down time, I’ve watched many new Mazak’s, Okuma’s, HAAS machines sit for weeks and wait for warranty approval and parts to come.

You can also buy a building as a separate entity and rent it to your machine shop, start an entity that owns your machines, and then rent them out to your machine shop entity.
Have seen people do this often also.
I currently do this, I have a properties company set up I rent from, $3k/month. That money has become a huge savings over the years, it does not get touched for any reason.
 
You choose what kind of risk you're comfortable with.

New machines are a safe bet until you have health problems, a divorce or your customer base unexpectedly disappears.
Yep, those aren't machine risks though, you have those risks regardless of buying a used or new machine, but yeah understandable.
 
Yep, those aren't machine risks though, you have those risks regardless of buying a used or new machine, but yeah understandable.
In comparison, my used VF3SS, I paid $35k for it delivered and set into my shop. I just went through and built my machine with the options I have and it comes to $110k.

What can that $110k machine do that I can't with my used $35k machine? Remote Monitoring? Cool, but not worth $75k, when I can add a 3rd party software, Chatter, for, shit I don't even know what that cost me a year, less than $500.

So you get your HAAS warranty for 1 year standard, or you can extend another year for $8k, what do you do after 2 years, add 3rd party coverage? Well I pay $467/year for insurance on my machine with mechanical breakdown coverage with a $1000 deductible.

Now of course, there are a lot of factors that come into play when buying a machine, the type of work you do for one is going to be a big factor. Shops may require that $800k machine that is going to hold .0001" all day everyday unattended.
 
I'm pretty sure I already suggested this but, tossing it out there again: Westec / AeroDef starts tomorrow. There are different presentations and conferences each of the days. Some of those are likely your potential customers. Tomorrow morning, starting at 8:00 AM, you'll have access to two different supply chain people from Northrop. Wednesday has another group of people speaking on the same related subjects. Thursday has a Boeing guy. You can walk up, meet them after the presentation and ask questions.

If you get in the car in the next couple of hours you can still make it to a hotel for the night and be there in the morning.

 
Houdini16, were you the one thinking about pallet pool machines? Couldn't remember if it was this thread. This came up in my eBay search today:


This price is pretty average for these machines. It's a narrow market to find a buyer of a pallet pool horizontal. The thing that caught my eye is the tombstones. If included they take this from okay to a good deal (if everything else checks out). Full 4th axis, 1000 PSI TSC and probing too.
 
Houdini16, were you the one thinking about pallet pool machines? Couldn't remember if it was this thread. This came up in my eBay search today:


This price is pretty average for these machines. It's a narrow market to find a buyer of a pallet pool horizontal. The thing that caught my eye is the tombstones. If included they take this from okay to a good deal (if everything else checks out). Full 4th axis, 1000 PSI TSC and probing too.
That's cheap to get some work done, but yeah NO.
I have bought my last Haas, I have 4 new machines, one new for the past 4 years, never again.
but I have heard too many stories about these things having pallet change issues while your gone a lot, hindering $$$$
I think if I'm cheap Mazak, if more dinero Okuma or Matsuura.
I need a 5 axis, like yesterday, so order of operations also,
customer got a new CAD guy now everything is a compound angled nightmare with rounded corners on every surface,
like bro, you know I have a 3 axis correct, uuuuu, 6 ops and a couple fixtures later.

Thanks Though, I'm a wait for the economy to historically crash mid to end next year, then judge my next machine purchase.
 
So you get your HAAS warranty for 1 year standard, or you can extend another year for $8k, what do you do after 2 years, add 3rd party coverage? Well I pay $467/year for insurance on my machine with mechanical breakdown coverage with a $1000 deductible.
can you point me to your insurance company for this coverage? is it a separate policy or part of your basic business insurance?
 
That's cheap to get some work done, but yeah NO.
I have bought my last Haas, I have 4 new machines, one new for the past 4 years, never again.
but I have heard too many stories about these things having pallet change issues while your gone a lot, hindering $$$$
I think if I'm cheap Mazak, if more dinero Okuma or Matsuura.
I need a 5 axis, like yesterday, so order of operations also,
customer got a new CAD guy now everything is a compound angled nightmare with rounded corners on every surface,
like bro, you know I have a 3 axis correct, uuuuu, 6 ops and a couple fixtures later.

Thanks Though, I'm a wait for the economy to historically crash mid to end next year, then judge my next machine purchase.

Yup, I was helping in a friend's shop when they pulled in a Haas HMC. Put it on it's knees immediately. "haas power". Multiple other problems. Within 6mo dumped it when some new Jap iron showed up. Spindle loads down to 50% and all drama went away. Never understand why the USA can't build to this level anymore. It's no different that lying about all the HP at the track. The shit stops when the light turns green.
 
Never understand why the USA can't build to this level anymore.

They seem to be doing well just lying about every spec.

Not that long ago there was a thread in the Haas forum about a guy ending up with less Y travel than spec because the way covers were made wrong. Average response seemed like people thought that was no big deal. Haas was fine to sell a machine then take back some travel.

Haas gets away with this shit because people let them. I think a lot of it's just innocent ignorance of what a machine should actually do for a given spec. If you're new and Haas is all you know you probably have a totally different concept of what 30HP and 1200 IPM is than anyone with a Japanese machine.

Like that recent EC1600 thread- Kind of alarming that very few people could tell the machine was missing a lot of major parts to be functional is a big HMC and some folks were totally cool with thin shims under the giant 5th trunnion.
 
Houdini16, were you the one thinking about pallet pool machines? Couldn't remember if it was this thread. This came up in my eBay search today:


This price is pretty average for these machines. It's a narrow market to find a buyer of a pallet pool horizontal. The thing that caught my eye is the tombstones. If included they take this from okay to a good deal (if everything else checks out). Full 4th axis, 1000 PSI TSC and probing too.
this machine ended up on the auction block think it went for about 60k plus auction fees....more than the asking price was when it was up for sale
 
I worked for a company as they got AS9100 certified. As I’m sure you know AS9100 includes ISO9001. Achieving AS9100 was twice the money of stand-alone ISO9001 and I’d wager 3-4 times the work. AS makes you encompass all OSHA regulations and whatever else they can dream of to a T. ISO just ensures that you follow a quality manual that you wrote. I noticed an increase in work from ISO but very little to AS. I think part of this was due to just lack sales contacts in that industry. But I think in big part not having the right equipment I think for AS work you’re looking at Mori/Okumas and Zeiss cmms and climate control. Not a Haas in a barn. The biggest swinging dick shop that I’m close with is only ISO9001. I’d suggest you start there and add the other certs if needed.
 








 
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