Mill making a banging noise on toolchanges... tool holders getting stuck in spindle.

[T Bigelow]

My Haas tech was quite adamant about the taper being dry on my machine. The only lube he emphasized was a small amount of grease now and then up inside beyond the taper to keep the draw bar clamping mechanism in good working order.

Later,
Russ

I find that quite funny considering Haas's own manual begs to differ. Page 275 of the April 2012 operator's manual "daily maintenance: wipe spindle taper with a clean cloth rag and apply light oil"

On a related note, we have a 2010 VF3SS-APC that was making quite the noise recently (a loud bang or pop) on about 15-20% of its tool changes. Had tech's in 3-4 times about it, tested the drawbar force and it is @ the low end of its spec. Tried cleaning and greasing the clamping mech which didnt really help much, next we had the pins going from the TRP collar to the drawbar replaced with seemed to help quite a bit. Although with almost 200k worth of tool changes and 3 hard crashes both the spindle and drawbar likely need replacement.

-Tom

 

[wrustle]

I find that quite funny considering Haas's own manual begs to differ. Page 275 of the April 2012 operator's manual "daily maintenance: wipe spindle taper with a clean cloth rag and apply light oil"

On a related note, we have a 2010 VF3SS-APC that was making quite the noise recently (a loud bang or pop) on about 15-20% of its tool changes. Had tech's in 3-4 times about it, tested the drawbar force and it is @ the low end of its spec. Tried cleaning and greasing the clamping mech which didnt really help much, next we had the pins going from the TRP collar to the drawbar replaced with seemed to help quite a bit. Although with almost 200k worth of tool changes and 3 hard crashes both the spindle and drawbar likely need replacement.

-Tom

Tom, I don't dispute what you're saying, but my comment was in reference to every tool change as my quote from Metaltech indicated, not a once a day occurrence as you're stating, which is part of normal daily maintenance.

Best Regards,
Russ

 

[metaltech]

Russ, I don't hardly work on Haas machines at all, so certainly not an expert on them. I don't know if they have an FRL, and if they do, whether it's plumbed to mist the spindle taper. As my first post said, I was generalizing about what I've seen on Asian machines, so my comments may be totally irrelavent. I do find it curious that the Haas tech would specifically say to keep the spindle dry.

 

[Boris]

Check the gap between the top of the drawbar and the bottom of the air cylinder pusher to find out if the pusher is breaking the taper or the carosel is pulling the tool out

That was the #1 cause of stuck tools on the leadwells I used to abuse

Boris

 

[Pipes]

Thanks for the info guys... I wasn't clear on a few things

4) Someone mentioned an air/hydraulic booster. Well, that just jogged a memory. When the toolchange issue was fixed, we had taken the sheet metal off to make it easier to fix and before we put it back together, I had one of my guys clean off as much of the gunk and crud as possible. There was a small (maybe the volume of a pack of smokes) white plastic reservoir on top with maybe 1/4" of sludgy oil in it. I know that was removed, cleaned off and replaced. I actually thought it was a sort of overflow...but it that is there to lube the drawbar mechanism, well, it's been empty for quite a while. Sounds like that may be it?

So it's air tool oil that should go in that reservoir?

That was most likely the oil reservoir for the air over oil drawbar actuator mentioned by Ox. Check your manual for proper oil, but most likely ISO 32 or 68.

 

[Mickey_D]

This is a drawbar knockout issue. Could be caused by wear on the top taper of the retention knob gripper (worn enough not to push on the top of the knob at full extension), the top of the drawbar or actuator is worn enough to not put enough down stroke to have the right amount of pushout. Pull out your mechanical drawings and see if you can see any way to adjust it or call your machine dealer parts dept. and tell them what it is doing and ask what replacement part you need to order. Either something is worn or out of adjustment. You might even check the length of the pull studs (in case this one pushes on the flat bottom of the stud) and compare the poppers vs. the good ones. If the pull stud is too short it won't get full down stroke to get knocked out.

 

[SRT Mike]

So after all the suggestions, I didn't want to leave anyone hanging...

I cleaned out the lines from the air/oil drawbar actuator and refilled the reservoir. I also took another of the suggestions and put a little grease on the top of a couple of pull studs. I also put a tiny (almost microscopic) swipe of grease on the taper of a toolholder. Then I cycled the tool changer a bunch of times.

Noise is totally gone on all toolholders.

The taper was dry as a bone... there will always be some expansion at different rates on the mating surfaces, and I guess that is part of what the shot of oil is for? Anyway, I cycled the toolchanger 20-30 times, then ran one of the programs that always makes the banging noise. Totally silent

Thanks for the tips!

 

[pti]

I have a Leadwell V40 with a carousel tool changer. It makes a hell of a thunk noise when it does a toolchange - some of the time.

Upon investigating, what is happening is that the tool holder is just stuck in the spindle taper real good. Not every tool holder will do it, but 5 or 6 will. I've tried cleaning off all the tool holders very well, and I've cleaned the taper numerous times - but it still does it. It's also not old shitty tool holders, as some of my barely- used MariTool ones do it too.

The banging noise is when the carousel comes over, the spindle moves up - it breaks the toolholder free of the taper, and the carousel plate has slightly flexed up during this, so the bang is just it popping back into place. God forbid a tool is left in the spindle overnight after the machine runs - it seems to cool down and get even tighter.. the bang when it comes out is even worse than those when running the machine!

Is it likely the drawbar is pulling the tool up too much into the spindle taper? I don't really see much in the way of an adjustment there. What's the best way to diagnose/fix this? Should I be looking at the pull studs? the spindle taper? drawbar set switches? What is the process for making any adjustments?

Thanks!

the drawbar needed the be calibrated, call Tod Linerman @ Campat Machine Tool in Dallas he can help.

 

[swatkins]

the drawbar needed the be calibrated, call Tod Linerman @ Campat Machine Tool in Dallas he can help.

Did you not see post #27 ( directly above your post #28) of this year old thread?