Monarch 12CKK, Prepping to Get Back in Service

[texasgeartrain]

I've been working a job a few hours from my home shop. Working a ton of OT, plus spending an average of half my week away from home. Its put a serious damper on my own projects and home shop. Plus while away, I've had a few occasions where I could use my machine tools, and not having them readily available has become a real pita.

I've considered moving some of my machines down to the Corpus Christie area, but ultimately, I'm not going to relocate or give up my home or shop in the Houston area. My Monarch Series 61 is still my priority project at home, I've just not had the time to dive into while there. Hopefully soon, as I clear work and add more people to the job in the Corpus area.

All this has led me to wanting to add a machine or two () in the Corpus shop. I had been casually looking for another Series 61, Pacemaker, or Pratt & Whitney Model C. I came across a Monarch 12CKK at HGR that was fairly cheap, due to a broken coupling at qcgb for the clutch lever. This looked like a relativly easy fix for me. Not a toolroom lathe, but has taper attachment and leadscrew reverse just above qcgb. I was thinking this could be be a decent purchase, and handle basic work for me. So I bought it.

Some Pics from the HGR advert:

 

[texasgeartrain]

After receiving the lathe, I called Monarch and ordered what manuals might be available, some, but not too detailed I'm told. I also ordered and got the build sheet.

The build sheet has 3 pages. The following pics show the details.

Page 1:



Page 2:



Page 3:

 

[texasgeartrain]

More pics from the HGR listing:



In this pic we can see the broken coupling for clutch rod at qcgb:



More pics:

 

[texasgeartrain]

Thankfully it still has the covers over taper attachment:



And the last pic I saved from the listing:

 

[Cal Haines]

Did you have it shipped? If so, how much?

 

[texasgeartrain]

Did you have it shipped? If so, how much?

Yea, I had it shipped. That of course was the real burn, just over $2k for shipping.

Nothing local lately I was interested in. No matter which way I figured, including looking at some other machines, I was going to travel a minimum of 900 miles one way, That'd be $500 in gas towing my own trailer, plus 2 days of precious precious time, that I just don't have. Just working those 2 days and saving the gas money put me ahead actually.

Another factor, I'm not handling long driving trips well the past several years, physically. So I try to keep it inside of 4 hours, and really inside of 2 hours where I can.

To help lighten the burn on shipping, I started looking for small items that could be tossed in the chip pan. Was hoping for a 4 jaw chuck, no joy there. Did find a Bridgeport brand mill vise that would be a nice addition to my J head mill. Paid under $200 for the vise and had them put it the lathe's chip pan. So no additional shipping cost.

Larger and heavier than I expected, feeling pretty good about that:

 

[Ultradog MN]

Cool!
My friend's CKK is very similar - kind of a plain Jane so far as options and doo dads go. His is also 5 hp. Has 1K spindle speed.
What size MT in the tail stock? His is #4.
Looks like your start/stop switch is still intact. The buttons in front push rods that move the contacts in the back of the lathe.
His was fubar so he had to install a drum switch.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Cool!
My friend's CKK is very similar - kind of a plain Jane so far as options and doo dads go. His is also 5 hp. Has 1K spindle speed.
What size MT in the tail stock? His is #4.
Looks like your start/stop switch is still intact. The buttons in front push rods that move the contacts in the back of the lathe.
His was fubar so he had to install a drum switch.

I didn't pop anything into TS taper yet, but an eyeball measure looks like MT4.

I love the original start/stop/reverse switch. I'll be doing all I can to have it operational.

One option it had, listed on sales order, was a direct length reading dial:



Its currently missing from apron, but that stud sticking out does rotate while moving carriage/apron. Not a major priority, but I'll be looking for one, or maybe make one to go into that spot:

 

[Peroni]

Curious as to why you chose the Monarch vs this Pratt & Whitney C that was much closer to you?

 

[texasgeartrain]

Curious as to why you chose the Monarch vs this Pratt & Whitney C that was much closer to you?

View attachment 384237

Funny you mention that . I had this convo with tailstock4.

Not sure now, but when I searched Pratt & Whitney on their site, zero showed up. I had already committed to the 12CKK when somehow I searched 'engine lathe'. Under that search I saw two P & W's there in Birmingham.

Both P & W's looked like they came from the same place and appeared like early Model C's. I actually preferred the other one with the 54" between centers and fairly sure a 16" swing, though listing was mislabeled on size:



Though closer, Birmingham is still 852 miles one way.

I may or may not keep the 12CKK long term, but I would ultimately like another 16"x54" at this location. Gotta manage time and budget though too.

 

[m-lud]

Another nice piece of iron! It has that nice look of not being hammered on. Paint worn off in normal places but not covered in pecker marks of ignorant abuse.
You're building a collection of what you need for making a nice job shop. You could be able to make parts for repairs that go along with your daily job. That would be a huge plus $$ if that could work. Bushings, Shaft repair, or whatever else is needed. You see all the money that's paid out for custom fabbed repair parts. Unless you have changed trades.

You're at that time in life that you're running fast making a living and don't get enough time building that dream shop. Life is Bass-Ackwards sometimes! You have plenty of time when your old and crippled. You do have a good jump on making your shop happen so keep at it.
Thats a good-looking lathe and a nice vice.
Now I have the fever for more IRON!

 

[Peroni]

Not sure now, but when I searched Pratt & Whitney on their site, zero showed up. I had already committed to the 12CKK when somehow I searched 'engine lathe'. Under that search I saw two P & W's there in Birmingham.

I've found HGR's search engine can do funky things at times like not recognizing the name or showing zero results when there are in fact listings that should show up.

That 14" machine is actually in Ft. Worth TX, the larger 16" is in Birmingham AL.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Now for a little bad news and a rant, lol.

In post #3 we see clutch rod off of qcgb due to broke coupling. I knew that. In special instructions during purchase, I asked them to tie up the clutch rod prior to loading and shipping to not cause other damages. . .

They didn't do that. Worse yet unnecessary, as some c#@% s&^%&# plowed underneath the bed and finished off the clutch rod. Busted it right off apron and bent the chip pan:



So now I need to fix that too. Noone notified me either.

I was not expecting any kind of real reaction, not a high dollar purchase. Took pics, emailed HGR. Got an apology and a minor in-store credit.

I think what bothers me most is they're a machine reseller. You might think they moved a machine or two previous, right ? Christ how many sad stories do we know about this sort right here ? Highly aggravating. Anyway, spilt milk now.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Moving on for a quick once over.

Bed ways amazingly nice for a 1946 machine. Guessing the lube system worked here, or the operator maintained it a bit. I have a minor ridge in the usual inside vee location, but not heinous. No gouges or dug in scratches on vee or flat.

Lifted headstock cover. Spindle bearings feel alright moving by hand. All gear teeth there. Nothing blown up or broken that I can tell:


Electric motor appears original:



QCGB teeth all there:



More to come.

 

[Ultradog MN]

It is all about the numbers.
Actuaries have tables and study this stuff.
Probably 90% of the world's population couldn't move a machine like that if their life depended on it. Of those who could, probably 90% wouldn't give a rat's nose about a little damage.
So you are looking at a very small % who could move it AND give a damn.
Maybe look at the bright side and be glad that was all the damage they did?
I am sorry to see it.

 

[m-lud]

HGR has been around long enough to watch what's going on. Oh, I forgot they already got paid!
Return that game on the next purchase. Work your deal then as you write the check suddenly remember and subtract that In-Store Credit that they forgot about, until you're suddenly remembering and reminding them. In cold bottom-line cash. And smile!

Someone quits and the lift truck driver becomes the rigger and Ultradog said a lot about experience or lack of it in machine moving, and not giving a darn. Damm it!

Otherwise, it's a good-looking lathe and that appears to include the Drive Trane gearing where it counts. The brite work looks pretty nice also.

 

[texasgeartrain]

The brite work looks pretty nice also.

The majority of chrome is in surprising good shape. One handle on apron is wore through a bit to see some copper primer under it, but most of the rest is real pleasing.

I really don't want to get into another major rebuild atm. But my eye twitches at the thought of running it as is.

I'm thinking I might break it down for a hard and fast cleaning and lube.

Problem is I know me, the fastest time I spent getting a machine ready was 4-5 months maybe, and a simpler machine at that. But at a minimum, I'd like to see carriage ways and cross slide clean, all oils changed, and service the electric motor.

 

[m-lud]

With all due respect I wanted to bring that up. I do the same thing. The thought of grinding grit into ways kills me.
Pull the carriage to clean it and flush the apron. With the carriage off you can inspect the apron. It looks like it came out a shop where it was being used. I don't know if HGR cleans them up.
Flush all the gits oilers with some excessive oil to clean and run it.
Me telling you not to take it all apart is me being a hypocrite.
Consider your schedule with deciding how far to go. Especially if you want it making chips.

When we see so much neglect on some of these machines it's hard not to want to make it right.

When you talk about working makes me miss working. I liked that overtime. My legs didn't.
Take care of yourself as far as getting the blood pumping good daily. Sometimes jobs dont do that even if you work hard. Lecture over.

 

[S5rx7]

I prowl HGR regularly. Up here it's just a bunch of hoods flying around on tow motors playing bumper cars, crash bang smashem up. My mind melts every time I go in there and watch them just absolutely globbering stuff. They toss everything around like rag dolls. I don't think I've seen 1 complete lathe picked from its spot and loaded onto a truck without falling off the forks at least once. If there is handles on the front they will break em. Ive got so many story's. Up here most of the stuff that is in inventory isn't online. 90% of there customer base is over seas.

 

[texasgeartrain]

I have come to the conclusion that I will tear this lathe down, separating the large major pieces. Not a major rebuild. But a decent clean up I hope. As well as addressing some repairs along the way. Plus the electric motor looks like original, and very cool, I'd like to rehab that as well.

Figuring I'd start with the obvious and see what I need to fix the broken clutch assembly. To figure it out, I'd have to get at least the qcgb end plate off. As it turns out, you must remove that end plate to have any chance to remove the qcgb assembly anyhow. Leadscrew yanked out:


Poking around to see how I might access I was curious about going through the start/stop switch hole. To my surprise there is no switch on the other side of cover. The power switch buttons are rods going through qcgb and lathe bed.


The reason end plate must be removed is the feed rod is the shaft for feed rod gear. The gear is attached to feed rod be taper pin. The only way to access the taper pin is to un-bolt qcgb end plate, and slide end plate and feed rod together a few inches, and with gear more accessible, knock out the taper pin. With gear removed, qcgb end plate slides off feed rod.

With that done, we can see into the first section of qcgb. I'm pretty sure all the chips got into this section from the key slots in the shafts going through end plate, I'm thinking I'm going to do something about that, luckily gears not damaged. We also have a better view of the power switch rods: