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Monarch 612 hydraulic motor phasing/rotation question

matt_isserstedt

Diamond
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Location
suburbs of Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Hello All

I recently acquired this 612 lathe @ 16 x 30. It has the separate outboard hydraulic tank and external 10hp spindle motor. Advanced rigging class required to move it as the CG is basically left of the spindle face....

PXL_20210703_110720253.jpg - Google Drive

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PXL_20210713_202005430.jpg - Google Drive
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Originally it was wired 480/3/60 and I'm basically thru the process of converting to 240/3/60...other than ancient overload heater section I'll likely never find the correct heaters for....I have the NC control contacts jumpered currently

I read in another thread about running the hydraulic motor independently to verify correct speed range shifting and so I disconnected the 1T1/1T2/1T3 main spindle motor and left the 2T1/2T2/2T3 hydraulic unit motor connected.

This works and I bumped it in both directions of rotation but could not tell a difference. I didn't want to run more than about 3 seconds in either direction to avoid damage. I filled the tank about 1/2 with fresh Vactra Heavy-Med as it was previously drained.

I think the correct answer is to wait until my 30A and 35A FRS fuses come in and then I can also attempt to use the main spindle motor which is allegedly clockwise rotation as viewed from the outer endbell in FWD rotation. Currently 17-1/2A fuses are fitted and I have a bad feeling its going to eat those just to bump the 10hp on 240vac. I kept all the original phasing consistent and have all motor leads labeled as originally connected ---- relying on the hypothesis that it was working at the GM Tech Center when it was last disconnected and sold to HGR.

But past that, supposing a brand new hydraulic motor was fitted, how would one figure out the correct rotation? Is there a fitting or line that can be cracked to demonstrate proper fluid flow?

Thanks as always for your advice.
 
I don't see detailed pics inside the tank, but operations manual page 12 mentions a filter in there. I would think the other end of that electric motor has a pump with two lines or ports. One side suction, and one side pressure heading toward headstock and gear box. While I don't know 100%, I would guess filter on suction side of pump.

Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Model 612 Lathe - Operators Manual | VintageMachinery.org

The pdf:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/15004.pdf

The style in this parts book looks different:
Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - Series 610 and 612 Lathes - Parts Catalog | VintageMachinery.org

Pdf:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/15192.pdf

Series 62 a little different as well:
Monarch Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - The Moanrch Series 62 | VintageMachinery.org

Your pics for those with google issues:

380.jpg 381.jpg
 
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Thank you! I had google searched out the operator manual but hadn't seen a parts manual yet until your post.

Unfortunately that .pdf has the swinging-door style hydraulic pump, mine is fixed externally and while there are a few lines visible under the headstock cabinet they are really well buried.

I suppose I could take off the headstock cover, but I'm guessing its easily over 100 lbs...

I'm hoping Monarch will sell me a manual for my serial number but for the time being I'm just trying to make sure that I don't have a major problem that could be costly to fix. Fuses should be here in a day or two and I can try the full monte of motors then.
 
I suppose I could take off the headstock cover, but I'm guessing its easily over 100 lbs...

I'm hoping Monarch will sell me a manual for my serial number but for the time being I'm just trying to make sure that I don't have a major problem that could be costly to fix. Fuses should be here in a day or two and I can try the full monte of motors then.

I just started working on my 61 series again. Head stock not exactly the same as yours, but reasonably close. Its every bit of 100 lbs, and awkward. Just this past week I was moving it, and decided to do something about it. Mine has 3/8 alen head bolts holding it down. My solution was to tap 4 of the holes 7/16 course thread. I can still use the 3/8 bolts to tighten to head stock, but when I want to move it now, I can use either 2 or all 4 of the tapped holes for lifting eyes. I choose those locations because the cast is pretty thick on the ends. It has cast webbing in the middle, but its thin there:

370.jpg 371.jpg

You call Monarch at 937 492-4111. Tell the lady who answers you want a service manual and build sheet. The build sheet is free, the manual between $50 and $75. Pay over the phone. You get a nice binder. Probably two operations manuals, one thick, one thin, and a fat parts manual. May or may not have schematics too. You can ask for an emailed copy of build sheet too, and they'll put the printed copy in your manual. Have your serial number on hand.
 
Do the pics linked to Google Drive present problems? I can't use the -img- brackets to push it into the body of the post....

I squished the driveway lol, actually was not very funny at the time. Ended up setting the machine down, and tilting the mast back to put some steel plates under the mast channels and then tilt forward, eventually got enough room for a typical 3T floor jack to enter and get the hole filled with some #57s (crushed limestone).

PXL_20210701_155352904.PORTRAIT~2.jpg - Google Drive

I had a lot of rigging apparatus out of the shop....2" round bars, 4" I-beam, 2-1/2" square tube, 4ft slings, 6ft slings. In the end this finally gave me the balance I needed. Hyster is a beautiful piece of work, it can *almost* tilt back this 7000 lb machine sitting 48" out on the centerline of the trailer despite an official rating of 7000# @ 24". The machine is simply so headstock-heavy there's not a way to rig it thru the bed with a single strap nor with forks under the bed. It just tilts.

PXL_20210701_151747550.jpg - Google Drive

I had a 10' x 3/8" thick steel plate lined up to skate it into the shop but sank in on the final approach.

PXL_20210701_121539161.jpg - Google Drive
 
Good day in the shop overall.

Armed with new FRS-30 fuses I was able to bump the main motor - and establish correct phasing, and then I let it all run for a few seconds.

Took about 15 seconds and the hydraulic motor started making hydraulic sounds and the oil level dropped down a bit. Previously the tank was drained and so I think the pump prime was not as fast as I initially thought.

Shortly thereafter I was able to observe regular drips, maybe 1-2 per second in the sight glass on the headstock.

I then tested shifting, ran thru about 6 speed ranges, high and lo and these all work as expected.

Made the call to Monarch Sidney to get a serial-number packet on the way for next week.

I will have to remove the bottom of the apron, it appears the bedway oiling isn't working at all, could be the cam/rocker, piston pump or a clogged line.

Have some CXA tools around and have to locate those also.
 
As far as rotation, most new pumps will have a rotation indicator, but you can also go by the pressure gauge and see what your idle pressure is and compare the two, which the right one will obviously be the highest pressure. Unless its a vane pump, you won't risk damage running backwards. I've seen vickers pumps run backwards for days without damage.
 








 
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