Mori Seiki MV Junior Value

[marcbark]

I have a friend that is disposing of his MV Junior due to not having time to troubleshoot some wiring issues. He's offered to sell it to me for the scrap value. I don't know the exact age, but it does have a Yasnac controller and is painted various shades of green. It also includes a 4th axis. I have a Cincinnati 2ML that would share some of the tooling.

The question I have is, is this machine worth my time? How troublesome are these older electronics?

 

[TexasMachine]

I have a friend that is disposing of his MV Junior due to not having time to troubleshoot some wiring issues. He's offered to sell it to me for the scrap value. I don't know the exact age, but it does have a Yasnac controller and is painted various shades of green. It also includes a 4th axis. I have a Cincinnati 2ML that would share some of the tooling.

The question I have is, is this machine worth my time? How troublesome are these older electronics?

Sounds like a bad deal. Can I get your friends contact info?

 

[MountaineerMiner]

Value is subjective and will depend on location, condition, included tooling, rigging cost, ect. To give you a reference point I paid $5,000 for a running one owner 1990 MV-JR with the 10M Fanuc control and no 4th axis, 2 Kurts, and half a carousel of toolholders in January of 2020 in Northeast Tennessee. This was the full asking price, I did not offer less and it was just across town. The previous owner helped load it so no rigging cost, which can be anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand depending on the region and how far they must travel. I had to fix a minor wiring issue with it as well as the unclamp cylinder that had rust issues from poor air quality. The machine was/is otherwise in great shape for a 30 year old machine and has more than paid for itself in the last year and a half. It holds less than a thou without much trouble on most operations but the circular interpolation could be a little better.

Depending on the wiring issues your “value” could move significantly. All I had to deal with was running down an intermittent short in the lube pump, so it took time but not money (cash money, time isn't free either). The unclamp cylinder cost around $800 to fix, but I sourced used parts (in the interest of time) rather than making new ones. If you need to start changing drives or other electrical components, you will be at the mercy of what you can find on the used market. My machine ran even with these two issues, they were just annoying. I would not recommend starting with an un running machine of this vintage if you don’t have a fairly good idea of what is wrong. There are too many good machines out there you can see under power to take that big of a gamble if your willing to travel regionally; unless you just like the project.

I have seen MV-JRs go for $800-6,000 at auction, but you have to deal with the riggers, taxes, fees, and generally not being able to run the machine prior to purchase, so tack some onto that. The 4th axis does add value, but im not sure how much with the Yasnac, maybe $1000-2500. There are a couple Yasnac MV-JRs on the Bay right now for $4700 each but they are in Ohio. The seller lists them as not tested but they don’t look to be in too bad shape age considering.

 

[marcbark]

Thanks, @MountaineerMiner for your assessment. I don't typically consider machines over 4,000 lbs as that is the most that I can move without calling in the riggers. The reason this machine is so attractive is it's a half mile from my shop, and we can move it with my friends' forklift. He purchased it a number of years ago from his employer when they upgraded their shop, so he's quite familiar with its history. It also comes with a newly rebuilt spindle.

I understand that the electronics can be quite a hassle, especially with these older machines, which brings me to why my friend offered this to me in the first place. I mentioned that I was looking for a Bridgeport-type machine to do a CNC conversion, and asked if he knew of any in the area. With this in mind, I'm approaching this from the standpoint that if I can't get the current electronics to work without too much trouble, I'll be removing them and putting in aftermarket controllers, etc.

From what I've read, these Mori Seiki are 100x better than many of the current import machines of similar capability, so it seems like it would be a good candidate for a CNC 'resto-mod'.

 

[Dan from Oakland]

Thanks, @MountaineerMiner for your assessment. I don't typically consider machines over 4,000 lbs as that is the most that I can move without calling in the riggers. The reason this machine is so attractive is it's a half mile from my shop, and we can move it with my friends' forklift. He purchased it a number of years ago from his employer when they upgraded their shop, so he's quite familiar with its history. It also comes with a newly rebuilt spindle.

I understand that the electronics can be quite a hassle, especially with these older machines, which brings me to why my friend offered this to me in the first place. I mentioned that I was looking for a Bridgeport-type machine to do a CNC conversion, and asked if he knew of any in the area. With this in mind, I'm approaching this from the standpoint that if I can't get the current electronics to work without too much trouble, I'll be removing them and putting in aftermarket controllers, etc.

From what I've read, these Mori Seiki are 100x better than many of the current import machines of similar capability, so it seems like it would be a good candidate for a CNC 'resto-mod'.

The iron is rock solid and Mori still supports spares. Not inexpensive but available. Don't even touch it if all the manuals , schematics and parameter list is not there. Not sure how much support is avail from Yasnac as far as parts, drives etc. You might want to check on that beforehand. If it had a Fanuc control, not issues but.........
If you have the parameters, control manual, ladder diagrams and wiring schematic, it should be possible to get it up and running. They are great machines and there are a few on PM with experience for support.

 

[marcbark]

The iron is rock solid and Mori still supports spares. Not inexpensive but available. Don't even touch it if all the manuals , schematics and parameter list is not there. Not sure how much support is avail from Yasnac as far as parts, drives etc. You might want to check on that beforehand. If it had a Fanuc control, not issues but.........
If you have the parameters, control manual, ladder diagrams and wiring schematic, it should be possible to get it up and running. They are great machines and there are a few on PM with experience for support.

Thanks for the recommendation on the additional items, I'll make sure to ask about those.

I do have another question, and perhaps this is the wrong forum for this, but how well will this machine run on an RPC? I'm rated for 10hp with my current setup, so I don't think power should be an issue, but will the controls/computer/drives have any issues with this?

 

[triumph406]

If it had a Fanuc control, as opposed to Yasnac I think it would be a viable proposition.

Fanuc has a great knowledge base, parts are readily availible on ebay, yasnac not so much. There used to be a lot of Mexican buyers up here in So Cal sending machines to Mexico. Always fanuc, NEVER Yasnac, that's got to tell you something.

 

[marcbark]

My thoughts on the Yasnac are that if it goes tango-uniform, I'll look into a Mach3 conversion, but that is another road to cross.

 

[Moriseikiman]

I bought a working VM JR w/Fanuc10M for 1700€ from an auction this week. Sweet condition, low hours from educational use. Doesn't look like the kids did much crashing and beating on it either. I considered it a very good deal. Not my first but third Mori Seiki, hence the nickname

 

[TexasMachine]

I bought a working VM JR w/Fanuc10M for 1700€ from an auction this week. Sweet condition, low hours from educational use. Doesn't look like the kids did much crashing and beating on it either. I considered it a very good deal. Not my first but third Mori Seiki, hence the nickname

Post some pics. I picked one up in similar situation.

 

[Moriseikiman]

Post some pics. I picked one up in similar situation.

I will bring it home in Monday and maybe in 2 weeks it's installed. I try to remember to take pictures then.

 

[Moriseikiman]

Just got it installed and leveled. Has 3200 cutting hours.

 

[TexasMachine]

Very Nice Setup! What is the green box that the compressor is sitting on top of? Mine did not come with a box like that. I have everything but RS232 Connection functioning (waiting on a testing device to check the signal) I keep getting like a buffer overload screen full of characters every time I attempt to punch anything out to the Calmotion DNC. I'm also having a problem getting G54 coordinate system to work like the more recent machines that I operate at work. I think I might have a parameter entered wrong somewhere.

 

[TexasMachine]

I got skimmer and coolant reservoir with mine but the reservoir on right side of picture does not look like the green box in your picture.

 

[Moriseikiman]

The big box under the compressor is a huge transformer. Just changes the voltage for something, maybe for the AC servos? My Mori Seiki AL-2 lathe has the exact same box. Weighs in about 200kg. Pretty unit you have there!

 

[marcbark]

Thanks to everyone for their help and the additional conversation.

I pulled the trigger, and I now have a 1985 MV Jr sitting in my driveway. It came with documentation for everything - 4th axis, spindle probe, etc. I have all the maintenance manuals and multiple copies of the ladder logic, wiring, etc. I have a complete list of G-codes and M-code, as supplied by the manufacturer. I also got a number of spare boards including a refurbished spindle drive unit, the control panel from an MV40 or MV50 (not sure which), and more cat40 tooling than I know what to do with.

I've been able to fire it up and begin troubleshooting, but it looks to be a long road...

 

[marcbark]

After spending three weeks away, I've been able to spend some quality time troubleshooting the errors that I was getting. Turns out that the main communication cable from the general-purpose I/O board was connected to the wrong spot. Once I installed it in the correct location, the machine came to life.

I am now working on getting programs running on the computer. From what I've read and understood of the manuals, it appears that programs can be downloaded into the memory (via the RS232 port). Will a standard RS232 cable be fine? What is the best USB to RS232 for this application?

 

[marcbark]

I'm working to clean the machine control panel as several of the push buttons stick when depressed. What is the best way of cleaning the buttons? Will water work or should I go for some IPA in a spray bottle?

 

[EmGo]

I'm working to clean the machine control panel as several of the push buttons stick when depressed. What is the best way of cleaning the buttons? Will water work or should I go for some IPA in a spray bottle?

They make electronics cleaner especially for this job, penetrates into tight squeezy places and evaporates without leaving residue. Probably worth the few bucks it costs.

 

[marcbark]

They make electronics cleaner especially for this job, penetrates into tight squeezy places and evaporates without leaving residue. Probably worth the few bucks it costs.

That's a good reminder! I've used it in a past life... but haven't had a need for it around the shop till now!