MRP System - Project Tracking

[Guster]

Hey everyone, I'm currently at a mid sized shop with no project tracking or management in place. I was looking to get suggestions on MRP Systems or ways to track projects that work for you.

Thanks!

 

[Oldwrench]

Not sure what you mean by mid-size, but:

MRP will lock you into data entry for everything. It will take months of full-time work just to build the database and if it's not perfect it's pretty much worthless. And you can't ease into it, everything (starting inventory, sales, materials purchases, deposits, payments, you name it) has to start from zero. Your accountant will probably want you to schedule it to start on the first day of your fiscal year.

MRP is indispensable for a resale organization which buys and sells. Think grocery chains, Walmart, MSC. But, a contract machine shop is going to see a huge leap in overhead because for the system to work, everything that happens has to be entered. Office staff will generally not be qualified to build the database because they won't be able to tell what parts constitute an assembly (sell an assembly, the system must deduct each individual part from inventory). That means you get to do it, and setting it up is an endless time sink.

I have seen some 10-20M/year companies become absolutely paralyzed. The company culture gets transformed from quick-reacting to cast-in-stone. People will avoid change like the plague because of all the associated data entry. Probably not what you wanted to hear but I learned the hard way.

 

[Guster]

Not sure what you mean by mid-size, but:

MRP will lock you into data entry for everything. It will take months of full-time work just to build the database and if it's not perfect it's pretty much worthless. And you can't ease into it, everything (starting inventory, sales, materials purchases, deposits, payments, you name it) has to start from zero. Your accountant will probably want you to schedule it to start on the first day of your fiscal year.

MRP is indispensable for a resale organization which buys and sells. Think grocery chains, Walmart, MSC. But, a contract machine shop is going to see a huge leap in overhead because for the system to work, everything that happens has to be entered. Office staff will generally not be qualified to build the database because they won't be able to tell what parts constitute an assembly (sell an assembly, the system must deduct each individual part from inventory). That means you get to do it, and setting it up is an endless time sink.

I have seen some 10-20M/year companies become absolutely paralyzed. The company culture gets transformed from quick-reacting to cast-in-stone. People will avoid change like the plague because of all the associated data entry. Probably not what you wanted to hear but I learned the hard way.

Thank you, we actually already have a home grown system if you will. However, it's been in the process of getting to that next step for quite some time now. What we're really in need of is some way to track what machines are being used for what projects and how other projects will effect will be effected if there's an issue. Basically some type of scheduling system.

 

[mfgbydesign]

Take a look at "openworkbench" for project based work. It's free. You can create a Work Breakdown Structure (task list) for each project, resource requirements for each task, link together with precedence, plug in resource availablity (including holidays & vacations, hours per shift, shifts per day, etc.), plot out as a Gantt chart, and create a master project sheet of all the sub-projects to show resource constraints. Then you can slide tasks (operations) to try various "what-if" scenarios and show the impact on deliveries.
It's not MRP, not going to generate PO's when that material is due for a specific operation. It's a loss-leader for a company that makes ERP software and if integrated will show planned vs. actual, completed tasks, etc. based on routing confirmations.
It's similar to MS-Project, just as powerfull, and free so you can have a copy on your desk, laptop, conference room, and at home. Just put the files on a network drive so you can access them from different locations.
You can see what the "master project" screen looks like here, and it shows overloaded resources:
http://www.mfgbydesign.com/project_management_files/Master_Schedule.pdf
Keep in mind you need to build this step-by-step, starting with the WBS.

 

[Weasel]

We are using Henning VET.I've used it for quoting and generating travelers for several years, and this year we we plan on using some of the other features, such as time tracking and scheduling.We are still using QuickBooks for accounting. It's cheaper than E2 or Job Boss. None of these systems is intuitive,(like CAD/CAM) and if you don't spend the time and money on training, you might as well not bother.And yes, there is a lot of data entry, and if you don't do everything right, it won't play. But if you are growing and want to keep it together,I belive some type of ERP system is needed.You will probably have to give up your homegrown system to get everything working together, I found that was the hardest part.

 

[kuraki556]

We do 30-32 million annually in sales. ERP is indispensable for our operation. We are a job shop, and it's not perfect, but it's night and day different with ERP compared to the nightmare we had prior.

I don't understand the complaint about data entry. Without ERP you still have data entry, either into some peoples heads, which is not scaleable, reliable, or wise considering it puts a lot of eggs in one basket, or data entry into independently generated databases that are impossible to cross reference.

I'm not 100% sold that scheduling for a job shop can be even 80% perfect given all of the variables, but even without the scheduling, having everyone from inventory to sales to production on the same system has streamlined our organizational processes by an order of magnitude.

We're using Epicor Vantage, and are absolutely unafraid of change. Over the last 6-8 years we've transformed from a dark, dirty fabrication shop that tracked labor with hand written job cards and stored material outside and had an entire building devoted to storage of WIP, to a clean, well lit, well ventilated shop with predictable enough material turns to store it all indoors, executing a JIT shipping plan where the finished product sits less than an average of 24 hours on our dock, an RFID tool crib tracking and automatically reordering consumables, and a net growth in sales of 30-35% without a growth in staffing.

 

[Oldwrench]

We do 30-32 million annually in sales. ERP is indispensable for our operation...
I don't understand the complaint about data entry.

If you needed a separate building to store WIP then your company was large enough to desperately need MRP (or ERP, or any of the other acronyms). For the 10-man-or-fewer outfits representing the vast majority of US job shops, I stand by my opinion that instituting and maintaining MRP will result in a net productivity loss.

 

[ShopPlanner]

If you are looking for a tool that can schedule and track multiple concurrent projects (or jobs) subject to resource availability and display workflow and resource schedules, you may take a look at Optisol's Schedlyzer Lite.

 

[SeaGT]

We use JobBoss at our shop. I couldn't imagine going back to clunky excel spreadsheets, with no real idea where parts are in the process. The data entry starts from a quotation which is daily detailed. From the quote, when the job is won,can easily be copied to an active job which will include all of the traveler/ routing lines, raw material requirements, outside service requirements etc.

From there you can very easily identify raw goods that need to be purchased. Finish the job, track labor and COGs, keep spares in inventory.. Ship, invoice or integrate shipping info into quick books.. Sure, it takes a little time upfront.. But like I said, I couldn't imagine going back to the old way we were running our business.

Sounds like its complicated, but seriously once proficient you can enter a 20 line PO, and have jobs released in minutes. For repeat jobs it's even easier making those jobs you've completed templates.. Enter the p/n and everything auto populates..

 

[dkmc]

I am a 1 man shop and I use Henning VET
It is very far from perfect, but the end result is that it has allowed me to quote and get jobs I would
have either not got or not made a profit on if they were guesstimated.

My .02c

dk

 

[lowdowncoyote]

We use JobBoss at our shop. I couldn't imagine going back to clunky excel spreadsheets, with no real idea where parts are in the process. The data entry starts from a quotation which is daily detailed. From the quote, when the job is won,can easily be copied to an active job which will include all of the traveler/ routing lines, raw material requirements, outside service requirements etc.

From there you can very easily identify raw goods that need to be purchased. Finish the job, track labor and COGs, keep spares in inventory.. Ship, invoice or integrate shipping info into quick books.. Sure, it takes a little time upfront.. But like I said, I couldn't imagine going back to the old way we were running our business.

Sounds like its complicated, but seriously once proficient you can enter a 20 line PO, and have jobs released in minutes. For repeat jobs it's even easier making those jobs you've completed templates.. Enter the p/n and everything auto populates..

I had a brief experience with JobBoss. The software seemed effective, but the interface and user friendliness could be updated and improved. It definitely beats Excel (in some respects). I had a major falling out with Exact over customer support, and abandoned the package. During the course of that, I learned; Never trust a software company that does not host a user forum, and never turn over any money until your absolutely satisfied the software will meet you needs. Make sure it will dovetail into existing shop systems and workflow and does not require that you reinvent your processes. If a software company won't let you test the software personally, i.e. like a trial, make them demo the exact software package you are planning to buy; no additional add-in or modules. It may help avoid the situation of having spent all of the MRP budget and still have the 'solution' be another $2500 add-in away. I got trapped in a 'Bait and switch' "starter" package, which turned out to be a stripped down and unworkable skeleton requiring an upgrade to get the advertised results. With no possibility of refund, the only option was go in deeper or fold and take the loss. I folded and went a different route, happy to be done with that company.

I also recommend asking them to start demos from scratch, get the salesman away form his/her polished/rehearsed dog and pony show and focus on your needs and implementations.

Best of Luck to all looking at a MRP or ERP software. Please share your results and experiences.

 

[Edster]

I use E2. I was looking at Job Boss too, but they wouldn't give me a demo copy to try and E2 did. I can't say the demo was all that helpful though. I didn't know how to use the software and had to make multiple calls to the salesguy before I could do anything. Once I figgured out how to use it I had already entered in a bunch of stock items and routed a bunch of jobs so I just figgured I'd buy it. It's been working good and has been a good addition to my 4 man + me shop.

 

[Matt@RFR]

I am a 1 man shop and I use Henning VET
It is very far from perfect, but the end result is that it has allowed me to quote and get jobs I would
have either not got or not made a profit on if they were guesstimated.

A google search of "Henning VET" produces exactly zero applicable hits. Got a link?

 

[Dave K]

A google search of "Henning VET" produces exactly zero applicable hits. Got a link?

I'm not sure what the "vet" means, but it's probably coming form here?

ERP Shop Management and Accounting Software - Henning Software

 

[lowdowncoyote]

Need to vent... To bad the Better Business Bureau doesn't have any teeth... Avoid Exact JobBoss! Terrible service, poor business ethics, and they seem to be completely unabashed in their willful misrepresentation of their Starter package. Don't let their corporate responsibility and customers first noises fool you... They don't give one Sh*t about your success. At All.

I wish I could stay in business by offering a poor quality product, negligent service, and defend it with a "that JobBOSS has a policy of no refunds, and as such no refund was approved".

 

[dkmc]

I'm not sure what the "vet" means, but it's probably coming form here?

ERP Shop Management and Accounting Software - Henning Software

Visual Esti-Track ?

Henning pulled a 'bait & switch' on me as well.
A LOT of the functions in the pull down menus do not work......

 

[gustafson]

dunno if it does what you need, but quickbooks enterprise solutions tracks sales orders, inventory and will build assemblies and tie purchase orders to inventory

 

[RobF]

We have been waiting to pull the trigger on a piece of software called all orders by number cruncher. It can be easily customized (some by us and some paid for and done by them) and seems to do what we need. It integrates into quickbooks as well.

We have quickbooks premier and while it is very nice, I find their solution for building assy's and BOMs only fit for really simple stuff. We want to track external work orders (plating) and have assemblies built automatically as the traveler progresses through the shop.

 

[dkmc]

I have seen first hand, and have been told by more than one accountant that QB is
notoriously inaccurate at any sort of tracking function. Suppoesdly, Peachtree is much better, although it in itself has it's list of problems and clunkyness....

dunno if it does what you need, but quickbooks enterprise solutions tracks sales orders, inventory and will build assemblies and tie purchase orders to inventory

 

[gustafson]

First your accountant is unformed, there is nothing in an accounting package that would be 'inaccurate'

I have 20 years of using quickbooks, I think I would notice

Quickbooks Enterprise is NOT quickbooks premier.

I have never done what you want to do so I have no idea if it will do that