My machine cleaning tip for Europeans

[Martin P]

After having moved from the US to Germany 10 years ago (time flies) I had 3 problems in getting stuff.
"A1 Steak Sauce Hot & Spicy", reasonably priced Levis Jeans and Krud Kutter cleaner/degreaser for cleaning machines and similar.
Since I travelled to the US a lot on business, this is the stuff that was always in my suitcase.

Krud Kutter had been recommended on this forum and it is the best. I only found something similar from Würth called "FI Reiniger", but too expensive and sold as a car interior cleaner for fabrics!
Krud Kutter was available in the UK until some years ago, but then import was stopped due to "labelling issues" (info from a UK forum).
It was clear an equivalent must exist, but I cannot buy every cleaner out there just to check it out.

A few days ago I picked up a Lista cabinet, the dirtiest thing I ever saw and I literally removed it from a barn full of cows (they were very curious). Before that it must have decayed in a particuler dirty part of a machine shop, housing 40 taper tooling. As usual the normal degreasers worked very unsatisfactorily, a complete waste of effort, but then I picked up "Bref Power" degreaser and oven cleaner at the local Lidl market.
This works just like Krud Kutter and I can't tell the difference. I love it. Maybe I am just easily pleased.
And at less than 3€ a Liter it is even way cheaper than Krud Kutter.

So anyway, this is what I recommend.
Now I can attack that grimy Deckel monster that is making my shop look disgusting.

 

[moonlight machine]

After having moved from the US to Germany 10 years ago (time flies) I had 3 problems in getting stuff.
"A1 Steak Sauce Hot & Spicy", reasonably priced Levis Jeans and Krud Kutter cleaner/degreaser for cleaning machines and similar.
Since I travelled to the US a lot on business, this is the stuff that was always in my suitcase.

Krud Kutter had been recommended on this forum and it is the best. I only found something similar from Würth called "FI Reiniger", but too expensive and sold as a car interior cleaner for fabrics!
Krud Kutter was available in the UK until some years ago, but then import was stopped due to "labelling issues" (info from a UK forum).
It was clear an equivalent must exist, but I cannot buy every cleaner out there just to check it out.

A few days ago I picked up a Lista cabinet, the dirtiest thing I ever saw and I literally removed it from a barn full of cows (they were very curious). Before that it must have decayed in a particuler dirty part of a machine shop, housing 40 taper tooling. As usual the normal degreasers worked very unsatisfactorily, a complete waste of effort, but then I picked up "Bref Power" degreaser and oven cleaner at the local Lidl market.
This works just like Krud Kutter and I can't tell the difference. I love it. Maybe I am just easily pleased.
And at less than 3€ a Liter it is even way cheaper than Krud Kutter.

So anyway, this is what I recommend.
Now I can attack that grimy Deckel monster that is making my shop look disgusting.

I was just using some Krud Kutter, the stuff is magic!

 

[ballen]

Then I picked up "Bref Power" degreaser and oven cleaner at the local Lidl market.
This works just like Krud Kutter and I can't tell the difference. I love it.

Martin, that's great, I want to try it, but which Bref Power?? Is it

Bref Power gegen Fett und Eingebranntes, oder Bref Power Backofen & Grill Reiniger, oder?

BG
Bruce

 

[thermite]

Martin, that's great, I want to try it, but which Bref Power?? Is it

Bref Power gegen Fett und Eingebranntes, oder Bref Power Backofen & Grill Reiniger, oder?

BG
Bruce

The second one.

Or so it translates.

Mind.. Martin WAS a tad imprecise for anyone who had been even ten DAYS in DE, let alone ten years. "Precision" thing?

"cows (they were very curious)"

Clarify?

- you found the cows to be "very" worthy of YOUR curiousity?

- the cows found you "very" worthy of THEIR curiousity?

- both of the above?

Pick any three.

Now don't even start. I'm only about 12.5% German.

And half of THAT is Swiss-German!



Meanwhile.. back at the grubby Old Iron "barnyard"....

I STRONGLY recommend that BEFORE applying strong caustics or concentrated solvents.. of ANY kind.. (destroyers of paint as they are..)

.. one use stiff chip-brush or shoe-polish dauber brush (the round-headed sort) to apply a generous scrubbed-in lather all over the machine with any cheap-but-decent "waterless HAND cleaner".

The NON-abrasive kind that is mostly lanolin.

Leave it overnight. Pull it off with disposable paper shop or household toweling, cheaper the better. It will not be a major disposal hazard. Repeat at least once.

Any runoff is easily cleaned-up. There are no harmful fumes nor harsh chemicals. Paint that is sound remains sound. Rust is not encouraged. And even deep pockets of crud at inside corners are softened to be more easily scooped-away with wooden carpenter's shim/wedges (break them to width and shape) or plastic spackling blades.

NOW.. you can see what to use NEXT. Whether solvent, caustics, media-blast, or "muscle" - it will have far less WORK to do, and can be more precisely directed and controlled.

And your lungs, hands, deck underneath, nor shop air will not be so "AFU".

Try it even on a surface that seems to have deeply embedded and polymerized varnish grime.

Might suprise you how well it works on painted metal or bare. Just as it does on grubby hands, stray paint, adhesives, and all.

Basically, it gets UNDER the crud - between a surface and the grime atop it - so the grime no longer has good attachment to the surface.

Simple. Effective. Not the least bit "harsh".

Now and then it even eliminates the need of a "full" paint-job so but a mere touch-up serves. Or not-even.

I'm good wit' dat' last part.

VERY!

Lazy, Iyam.

 

[Martin P]

It is the first.
I have to try the second now too.
For tough stuff I spray thoroughly and then rub down with a fine or medium "Schleifvlies".
Afterwards remove with cloth/shop paper towel. It is like watching a miracle, particularly after trying it with a normal degreaser before.
Instant gratification.

Only now see thermites post.
Yes I was imprecise. I was naming the stuff from memory. Who knew there were so many kinds.
Since this stuff is in a normal supermarket isle I presume it to be harmless and I do not see or feel any irritation.

Reading the fine print on the bottle now it says to not use on any painted surfaces! Thats probably why it is so good!
Also not on Aluminum! But I did and its fine.

But I spray on, rub it and whipe off. So no prolonged time time to dissolve anything.


Now I wish I could fine decent paint stripper, but I cannot. Everything is so harmless nowadays it is pointless.

 

[thermite]

Now I wish I could fine decent paint stripper, but I cannot. Everything is so harmless nowadays it is pointless.

One can. It just isn't as FAST as the old Methylated and Halogenated ones. Also far less toxic, so I'm OK with that. Lye, TCP, and "washing soda" all can still be had if need be. HEAT can help. Reverse-electrolysis, too.

The new generation is made of soy and utilizes a weird low-level chemistry that nature invented a billion years or more ago. Orange coloured.

As said . not FAST. But variants of it even dissolve the uber-durable adhesive so damned much auto body trim is attached with .. so a body shop can re-use gone "unobtanium" trim after a repair to the body under it.

"Beany.." this or that. "Goo gone.." etc. There's a whole tribe of them now, kitchen as well as garage.

Experiment. You will NOT "love it". But it can work OK. Sort-of.

Instant-gratification-generation is having to re-learn what our grandparents knew.

In the long run? Patience .... is cheaper ... than damaged health.

Not that G'parents were exactly the wisest in THEIR day, either!

Roman idea of "non-stick" cookware? Iron sweat-tinned with LEAD!

Chinese "Thousand Year Old Egg" preserved with .. lead compounds!

G"Dad's weapon against the potato beetle? Arsenate of lead!

Dad mold-proofing house paints with... a Mercury compound!

And thennn.. we "brown", "carmelize" and varnishify our butters, fats and oils, "BBQ", flame-broil, grill, and "char" our meats... and even veg.. so as to generate about three orders of magnitude more carcinogens.. than stewed, boiled, slow-cooked, casseroled, or slow-baked does?

Go figure more folk get cancer more often than was the historical case?

A "carcinogen" might be just what is SAYS it is? One might NOT have to BE in Kalifornickyah to get cancer, after all?

Nah. That's just "conspiracy theory"! it's all paint fumes and "second hand" smoke!

Food has to be FAST!

Char them steaks, brown that crispy "chicken-leather" on the grill... and carmelize us up another round of chewey Nürnberg Rostbratwurst!

Got graves to dig.. before the teeth we dig them with rot or fall out..from cancer in the gums and jawbones or tumours blocking colons messing up the nutrition...

"You are what you eat". Until it eats you .. as punishment earned.

 

[ome.machining]

We use Biocircle SB100.

NSF approved, and sprayed on. Let is sit for a minute, and old grease and coolant run straight off..

It's more expensive, but it works brilliant [emoji106]



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[steve-l]

Martin,
You will find that Germany places strength restrictions on their household chemicals. Try buying industrial chemicals from Amazon instead. I use pool clorine bleach and truck tarp cleaner in 20 liter containers. Avoid using strong alkaline cleaners on machinery. They are fine on stainless, but hell on aluminum and paints. You want to use an industrial grade emulsifier (like 409). These will dissolve oxidized oil deposits and not harm paint.

 

[thermite]

We use Biocircle SB100.

Bio-Circle Surface Technology GmbH - Parts cleaning and more

Andorra? Oy! You folk have some aggressive twisty-road drivers! Or so they thought they were 'til the Italian plates on the Alfa-Romeo turned out to have a West Virginian back of the wheel!

So much for BMW 7-series alleged road-holding!



But what with COVID restrictions on travel?

I'd have expected y'all have enough unsold low-tax booze to soak stuff off in surplused Ethanol!

Brandy Flambé of roast honeyed-mustard grease Deckel, anyone?

"The sauce is the BOSS!"

 

[Peter from Holland]

I used to use lye But now with employers doing the cleaning I stopperd that
Cheap paintstripper on some paints too Not on all paints though

Peter

 

[thermite]

Not on all paints though

That IS a major part of the challenge, isn't it?

The variables in the progress and choice of coatings technology over "one-approach-does-NOT-fit-all" time and circumstance of some distant decision-makers OEM selection. Then changes to it.

Some OLD paints are tough as cut-nails. Some intermediates, dead-easy to remove.
And some of the newest multi-component ones damned-near nuke-shot fireball-proof!

Or NOT.

And that was just the OEM.

"Field Maintenance" krew choices, if any, thereafter, drags-in a whole 'nuther set of unpredictables.

"First test <our product> on a non-visible surface" indeed!

Very seldom is that a waste of time. It can save time, money, and mess.

 

[Kees]

Suma-grill D9

 

[thermite]

Since this stuff is in a normal supermarket isle I presume it to be harmless

Do not "presume". Supermarts carry a LOT of things that are dangerous when not used as intended.. or even when they are.

I did not arrive at the use of gentle hand-cleaner because I was short on knowledge of chemistry. Quite the reverse.

Why take the nasty road when a safer one is as cheap and works as well, or better?

Oh. That "instant gratification" thing?

Sorry.

I don't have the TIME to spare ... as the price paid for the AFTERMATH of clean up and repair of all that "instant" foolishness.

Damn seldom is it "free" nor even cheap.

Case in point?

"Goop" has been cleaning up the HBX-360-BC so very well .. I barely have to do even odd corner. edge or impact-bump touch-up paint to anywhere but:

Probably apply some "truck bed liner" onto the still-grubby chip exit chutes in the webs of the bed . and their catchment ledge back of the bed. As expected, scoured over the years of sharpish chip back to bare, if oily, steel.

Don't have to strip the paint there, either. I did say "bare" steel?



Goop even removed a previous "industrial" owner's stenciled-on property code number in shiddy yellow paint - leaving the original paint largely "as new".

I'll have near ZERO stripping, filling, priming, dust, wipe-down & repeat - prep, multi-step hassle..... all avoided .

.unless I actually gave a damn about Cazeneuve's choice of colour and wished to change it?

Why would I?

It's FRENCH.

One just turns out the light and proceeds by touch, taste, and smell!

Why did you THINK Lucas invented the dark?

 

[Peter from Holland]

The active component in oven cleaners and many other cleaners in general is in fact lye (NaOH)
So why not use that ??
Make it as strong or weak as you like
Use gloves and goggles when you use it

Peter

 

[thermite]

The active component in oven cleaners and many other cleaners in general is in fact lye (NaOH)
So why not use that ??
Make it as strong or weak as you like
Use gloves and goggles when you use it

Peter

If you have to ask, there is no further point, is there?

 

[ome.machining]

Why [emoji849]

Why is this necessary..? [emoji2962]

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[dalmatiangirl61]

My advice for a better steak sauce, Pickapeppa

 

[mark in Portugal]

For me, it depends on the job.
For cleaning grease and oil off my old tractor or car engines, I use plain water, hot, through a 200bar high pressure cleaner. It works very well, and is cheap.

I like cyclo carb cleaner, which I used to use in the US, and is also available here in Portugal. It's a really good degreaser, doesn't harm plastics (usually) evaporates away quickly... but it's very expensive, only for sparse use.
Lately I've shifted to WD40 brand degreaser in a yellow spray can.

There is a very good degreaser meant to be removed with water, that I use less often. "Mistolin", you can get it anywhere here. Good for everything from car engines to barbeques.

there are some heavily advertised products that fill supermarket shelves in brightly colored bottles, and don't seem to work at all.

Edit;
I forgot to mention, for larger, greasier objects that don't want to be in contact with water, like machine tools, I started using regular gasoline (petrol benzine, gasloina...) in a compressed air powered spray bottle.
Gasoline (even at EU prices) costs about 5% as much as those nice degreaser spray cans.

After blasting with the gasoline, I hit the residue with compressed air to blow away whatever is left.
Obviously, there is some fire hazard; I'm working outside in a wide space and a breeze.