My new 8,000 lb 14x30

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Wasn't too many years before this one was built that L&S was directing you NOT to bolt them down, ever.

M'm, interesting. I wonder what L&S were saying in their most recent publications ? More to the point what instructions did " American Tool " give regarding the installation of the Pacemaker ? If they said " Just leave it where you feel like it boys " I'll eat my hat. I've only ever come across one other manufacturer that actually didn't want you bolt their lathes down. They tried to make sure you didn't by not putting any holes in the machine base. Their concern was that the lathe would be installed incorrectly. These were Turret and Capstan lathes, it made life interesting when they came with a bar feed that had to be bolted down. Regards Tyrone.

 

[A_Pmech]

Mm, nice colours. "Bonus Blue" and "Piecework Purple". That's what we used to call " A Mans Lathe ". Regards Tyrone.

ROFL Tyrone! "Bonus Blue"

Bump the feed rate up another .002/rev and they'll be like gravel instead of coils.

Right on! That's actually what I did after making a fair pile of those. Gravel isn't as impressive as big curls.

I forget to ask, is the machine bolted to the floor ? Regards Tyrone.

No, it's resting on "feet" made from squares of 3/4" plate. I do some pretty close tolerance work on it so I keep an eye on the bed twist every so often. It doesn't move at all, but on heavy roughing cuts you can feel the floor rumble a bit. It's 8" of concrete with 1/2" re on 12" centers on two feet of compacted stone.

Re: Power. It's powered with a 10 HP motor, but I've taken cuts close of 15 HP with it. I haven't stalled it, but I've slowed it down. The main objection to further material removal is torquing the CA sized toolpost sufficiently that it doesn't twist around it's axis under feed force. I hang off a 3' long 1-1/2" wrench to torque the toolpost nut and on a couple of occasions that hasn't been enough.

I have experienced the hot front way Mike was talking about. The carriage will eventually start to bind slightly if you don't spray some coolant on the hot way. I have a sheetmetal chip deflector to handle that. That's not counting the "keep the hot chips off the squishy human" chip deflectors, of which I have a small arsenal.

It's my recollection American was indifferent about bolting the machine down. The machine moves around a bit till it warms up. Mostly, the spindle gets longer by about three and a half thou between cold and warm. I haven't encountered a bed twist issue though.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Mm, well whatever turns you on. I'm a bit surprised to hear about the thermal expansion of the lathe spindle. I've only ever come across this in regard to travelling spindles on Hor Bores. The whole idea of lathe and milling machine spindle/bearing design is for the spindle to expand away from the spindle flange/chuck.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[Kevin Q]

My favorite lathe was an American Pacemaker I ran at Duval Potash in Carlsbad New Mexico in 1975-76. It was a 24" but if I remember correctly I could swing 34" over the ways. The tailstock seemed as if it weighed in excess of a ton. Had a crank to move it and dogs between the ways to hold it from moving after the 4 clamping bolts were tightened. The main ways were both a v-way, nothing flat. Had a 50 HP motor and a needle which showed how many amps were being used by the motor (just a percentage of load being generated). I was never able to peg the gauge. The machinist trainee before me ( I hired in as a Journeyman as no one seemed to want to train on that lathe from in-house so they went outside) had a pump volute in the lathe after welding and was re-profiling the inside where the impeller runs. As he turned the lathe on he noticed the compound wrench was left in and he grabbed for it as the volute discharge flange came around. Lost his left hand in an instant. If I remember correctly the low speed was 4 RPM. I do remember his name after all these years.

The other machinist there was about 5 years from retirement and I remember him being mad as hops when I brought some carbide tools from my previous employer. All high speed steel for his entire career. I used 1" cemented carbide tool bits, still have 1 in my old tool box. Had a 79" long roll shaft in there on occasion, 24" diameter for 26" long in the middle and Babbitt bearing journals 15" dia. on either side. Turned it around 170 RPM and finished the bearing journals with a ceramic tool. Previously the journals were ground but that was a long job and it was complicated by railroad tracks outside the shop. On an all-day grinding job there would be ripples in it when the locomotives came through. Never a hiccup going that fast with an approx. 9000 lb shaft. I think I remember that weight correctly, wouldn't be too tough to calculate but not tonight.

At any rate, the Pacemaker is the Cadillac (maybe Rolls Royce) of lathes. I have heard the Axelson was a great lathe as well but I have never seen or used one. The rumor I heard was that it cost Duval $105,000 in 1965 for that lathe new but that is only hearsay.

At any rate, congrats on the American, you can't possibly go wrong with it. KQ

 

[alskdjfhg]

And I passed on one for 900....

 

[Blazemaster]

I would love to see a shootout between a Pacemaker, an Axelson, and a Lodge and Shipley model X of similar sizes. They seem to be the big 3 of quality made, american heavy duty lathes. Warner and Swasey as well, but they are turret style.

 

[Mike C.]

Throw Sidney and Monarch in there, too. As I said in another post recently, there really were NO bad lathes in the industrial grade US made machines. All it would take is one bad run of machines to get out and that company would be flat ruined in a matter of a year or so. They would be told to come get their junk out of the plant and it would have been instantly replaced with one of the above. Nobody would tolerate anything like the modern asian imports with loose bolts, poor finishes, sand in castings, lousy control layouts, etc... They didn't have to tolerate it with such amazing machines being produced.

I have not run an Axleson or Monarch, but I have run the Sidney herringbone, L&S X, and Pacemaker. The Sidney and X are very nice, but the Pacemaker is king. Gearbox is super simple and much faster to change speeds, like driving a truck instead of a bunch of levers sticking out that make no logical sense. Cross slide and compound graduated in diam with big easy to read stainless dials. Controls made more sense to me than any of the others. Just a more user friendly machine.

 

[alskdjfhg]

Screw the Model X, use a Model G. That was supposed to be L&S's response to the Pacemaker.

This is a G.
Lodge & Shipley 25" Engine Lathe - YouTube

 

[Greg Menke]

Man look at the headstock bearing casting on that L&S- kind of on the robust end of the scale....

I don't have a Pacemaker but I do have two ATW High Duty machines, a 14" from 1912 and a 12" from 1936. The '36 machine's tailstock is <much> heavier than the 1912 machine, even though its technically smaller & uses 3 bolts for clamping rather than 2. Its actually a bit of work to push up/down the bed. Pacemaker tailstocks are heavier still I'm sure lol.

 

[johnoder]

use a Model G

Actually, the admirable G was little more than an improved version of this 24 / 27 1/2" Selective Head from 1920 - whose owners wore it out several times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/24 X 168 LS/At ESL/DCP_0920.jpg

 

[Mike C.]

"capable of BFBI kicking a Pacemaker's 'finessed' arse right up between its lovely shoulder-blades "

Hmmm. Never seen the 48" Pacemaker, eh? lol

There are lots bigger and more powerful lathes than a Pacemaker, but damned few better. You have to run one for a while to understand. You can turn around from taking unbelievably deep cuts and finish your work to within tenths... and it's not difficult. I have often stated that they are like having a 12,000lb Monarch EE.

That said, the old L&S machines are very nice. Remember, my big home shop lathe is a 1918 18" L&S Selective Head. They do not have the diametral reading dials (in fact, they are graduated in .002 on the dials), are less natural to select speeds, and they are nowhere NEAR as heavy for a given swing, but they are excellent lathes. My 18" x7 L&S is about 6,000lb. That 20" HD Pacemaker was about the same between centers and at least double the weight, about 12,000lbs.

Guy I bought that L&S from sold it because he found an 18" Pacemaker with about 8ft between centers. 27spd, 1500rpm top end, 3 and 4jaw chucks, collet chuck, taper attach, etc... Serious tool envy on my end.

 

[A_Pmech]

Lightweight.

Go ogle "Lodge & Shipley 3220" or "Superturn". Find 'em at up around 35 thousand pounds avoir at a buck and a half or so a pound and 50 HP (DC, yet) final-drive ...still-yet-today capable of BFBI kicking a Pacemaker's 'finessed' arse right up between its lovely shoulder-blades ... and into the middle of sometime next week where metal-removal is the name of the game...



Bill

You'd better check out ATW bulletin 3220, the last of the Pacemakers. The ATW people had a sense of humor, it seems.

(Located on Greg Menke's Pouncetron site: http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/index.html)

The small 25" machine was 60 HP standard with a base weight 20,820lbs for 30" between centers. It'll kick that L&S back into the toy store window where it belongs and then go back to moonlighting as the shop's cylindrical grinder.

 

[Miguels244]

You'd better check out ATW bulletin 3220, the last of the Pacemakers. The ATW people had a sense of humor, it seems.

(Located on Greg Menke's Pouncetron site)

The small 25" machine was 60 HP standard with a base weight 20,820lbs for 30" between centers. It'll kick that L&S back into the toy store window where it belongs and then go back to moonlighting as the shop's cylindrical grinder.

30" between centers?...or 30'

 

[A_Pmech]

30" between centers?...or 30'

30 inches.

Edit:

My mistake. The base length of 25" ATW machines was 48" according to Bulletin 110

 

[Miguels244]

30 inches.

Edit:

My mistake. The base length of 25" ATW machines was 48" according to Bulletin 110

At that weight it's surprising for work at all...sounds like a solid block of cast.

 

[Mike C.]

Poor little L&S....

American Pacemaker Style J 56x192 Engine Lathe - emachinetool.com

 

[Jaxian]

I notice no one ever mentions LeBlond lathes. I saw this picture of them and they seem pretty beefy. Did they just never cut it for some reason? They seem both large and capable. There is another one I would have to look for with a very short bed, in comparison to these, that has an even larger swing. Will look for it.

 

[A_Pmech]

And these were not giants. One went to Mesta or the like where the operator rode ON the carriage for THOSE.



Bill

That's comparing apples to oranges though.

Of course there are bigger machines than Pacemakers, that's not the point. I don't think you'll find bigger or more capable machines than the American 1610 or 3220 in their swing range. Especially the 14" to 36" range - which was my point.

 

[Miguels244]

LOL! This business of swinging OTHER PEOPLE'S dicks is getting comical!



Bill

Seriously though 60" is some serious swing!

 

[kpotter]

I have worked on a couple of heavy pattern leblonds they were nice lathes, I wouldnt mind one, I have had one completely apart and it was a nice lathe it was a 13x30 with a 20 hp motor and electric clutches to protect the transmission. I could not stall it, it cut full width cnmg insert size chips and only went to about 60% on the amp meter. I looked like leblonds answer to a Pacemaker short and stout. I have a model X that is nearly new, all the pacemakers I have worked on were wooped they had been rode hard for decades and were still making chips, but did not feel like a new lathe. My model x is 20hp with the box ways and a 1500 rpm top speed, I think, my chart is not very clear, need a new one.