New Haas UMC 350 Models Coming Out Soon

[NLan07]

Well, after seeing a video from IMTS on this machine it seems like at least one of the issues that the UMC 500 and its big brothers have has been fixed with the 350 design. Keeping the Y-axis in the table instead of the spindle should fix the Y-Axis droop. As long as they didn't mess something up with moving the X-axis to the spindle from the table then in principle it should be more rigid than any of the larger models. I'll still wait to hear what other owners say about it first though. I don't exactly love the idea of being a beta tester on a new product....

 

[BWS JAZE]

Well, after seeing a video from IMTS on this machine it seems like at least one of the issues that the UMC 500 and its big brothers have has been fixed with the 350 design. Keeping the Y-axis in the table instead of the spindle should fix the Y-Axis droop. As long as they didn't mess something up with moving the X-axis to the spindle from the table then in principle it should be more rigid than any of the larger models. I'll still wait to hear what other owners say about it first though. I don't exactly love the idea of being a beta tester on a new product....

The one they had at IMTS developed nasty z crunching noises towards Friday. Not off to a good start.

 

[empower]

The one they had at IMTS developed nasty z crunching noises towards Friday. Not off to a good start.

hard to get off to a good start when you shoot yourself in the foot before the race...

 

[Garwood]

The one they had at IMTS developed nasty z crunching noises towards Friday. Not off to a good start.

LOL Haas!

 

[Speedie]

Pretty funny the folks that say this configuration doesnt make sense but a speedio with 12 inches of z travel does. Go for it Haas make tons of different size machines and see what the market wants

 

[crossthread82]

Pretty funny the folks that say this configuration doesnt make sense but a speedio with 12 inches of z travel does. Go for it Haas make tons of different size machines and see what the market wants

The difference is that a speedio is actually good at what it does and for not much more than an optioned out haas. Which is really the argument all of are making, which is that for not much more money you can get a lot more machine if you look elsewhere. If the OP wants to buy this machine that's up to him... but most of us would recommend that if you're looking to buy a quality full 5th machine you really need to start looking at a more premium MTB, to a certain extent in this industry you get what you pay for...

To the OP, I saw this machine at IMTS and quite frankly I wasn't impressed (*shocker*), but it was mostly due to the fact that I can't really see what you get with this machine that you don't get with a VF-3/4 with a trt210/310 on the table. The VF would cost pretty much the same, have more travel, hold more tools, be more rigid, have more hp, larger swingable range, and room for one or two vises for back side work. That's a win win win win in my book, and best of all its a proven system at this point...no gamble (besides the inevitable gamble you're taking buying anything new from haas now a days but I digress). With that setup you're not going to be holding +-.0002" across 5 sides of the part between 17 different datums like I'd expect out of a GF, Kern, Grob, or Hermle or some other machine of that pedigree. But it will get your feet wet into the 5 axis game with out much risk, since if you find out you don't like it or F something up you still have a VF machine underneath to keep making parts the old school way.

 

[gkoenig]

Pretty funny the folks that say this configuration doesnt make sense but a speedio with 12 inches of z travel does. Go for it Haas make tons of different size machines and see what the market wants

But like, that's the problem!

You really want to be one of those ColdFire UMC750 owners who got to pay for the privilege of "seeing what the market wants?"

 

[empower]

But like, that's the problem!

You really want to be one of those ColdFire UMC750 owners who got to pay for the privilege of "seeing what the market wants?"

sounds like a missed a story, who's coldfire?

 

[Mtndew]

The one they had at IMTS developed nasty z crunching noises towards Friday. Not off to a good start.

In their defense, they did say that machine was a prototype.

 

[Areo Defense]

...I can't really see what you get with this machine that you don't get with a VF-3/4 with a trt210/310 on the table. The VF would cost pretty much the same, have more travel, hold more tools, be more rigid, have more hp, larger swingable range, and room for one or two vises for back side work. That's a win win win win in my book, and best of all its a proven system at this point...

That comparison points out the how different the target is for a VF-3/4 vs a UMC-350.

The cutting speeds/rapids for the VF-3 and 4 are 833ipm/1400ipm vs 1200ipm/2400ipm for a UMC-350.
The tilt and rotation speeds for a TRT-210 are 80/100 deg/sec and even more anemic for a TRT-310 at only 50/75 deg/sec, vs 1000 deg/sec for the TRT-100 that comes on the UMC 350.

The target market for the 350 is small 5ax parts and it scorches a VF-3 or 4 for doing that.

 

[Speedie]

It really does destroy their own trunnion/VMC times. Folks like to gripe its a fact of life. If USA companies like Haas didnt try we wouldnt have really good budget machines we would be stuck with 300K 4020s from Japan.

 

[Mike1974]

We were one of the first owners for a UMC750 (after they added front support anywyas), we didn't have too many glitches, a bug here and there...

@the Haas bashers - why do you guys respond? Haas could care less what a few guys think about their machine tools. They are after the shop owners and purchasers, not you.

# of tools - we had 40+1 and with 3 production jobs setup, we used about 45 (and one pocket dedicated to the probe) soo... but it's easy enough to write the offsets into a spare pocket table then change as needed.

 

[david n]

This thread down in the Members and Shop Photos forum is yet another shop that that seemed to have issue with a Haas 5x machine.........................

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/the-factory-amsterdam.365953/

 

[crossthread82]

I'm not bashing Haas, they serve a certain demographic and if you have reasonable expectations it will probably serve you fine.

But in that same sentiment I've never heard someone who had a haas that upgraded to a Japanese or German machine say they wish they didn't or the haas was a better machine.

If you make your own parts and you know what tolerances you need then that's one thing, but as a job shop with different customer demands coming through the door I'd rather have something overkill from the start so that way I'm not fighting things trying to hold a tolerance right from the beginning, just my opinion.

@the They are after the shop owners and purchasers, not you.

Who do you think has been talking? lol

When I look at a machine purchase I look at how much that machines going to make or how much value it adds to the shop, not how low I can get the number at the bottom of the quote b/c often times by spending more money you can make more money...

 

[empower]

We were one of the first owners for a UMC750 (after they added front support anywyas), we didn't have too many glitches, a bug here and there...

@the Haas bashers - why do you guys respond? Haas could care less what a few guys think about their machine tools. They are after the shop owners and purchasers, not you.

# of tools - we had 40+1 and with 3 production jobs setup, we used about 45 (and one pocket dedicated to the probe) soo... but it's easy enough to write the offsets into a spare pocket table then change as needed.

why do you take so much offense to what people say on the internet? i havent seen anyone insult you, but you seem to be taking other users' experiences and opinions personally, let it go man.
i'm super happy you had/have a good experience with the UMC, but that doesnt mean that there arent many people that havent been burned by them - there's nothing wrong with those people (myself included) making potential buyers be aware of the potential to get burned.

 

[thesidetalker]

why do you take so much offense to what people say on the internet? i havent seen anyone insult you, but you seem to be taking other users' experiences and opinions personally, let it go man.
i'm super happy you had/have a good experience with the UMC, but that doesnt mean that there arent many people that havent been burned by them - there's nothing wrong with those people (myself included) making potential buyers be aware of the potential to get burned.

It seems to me that all you post is "Haas sucks, buy a Mikron" in any thread? Guessing that's his point?

Not going to argue that. Sure, they're slow, inaccurate, and rigid as a wet noodle, but they have their place. Not everything needs the utmost precision... it really depends on the work you do.

 

[empower]

It seems to me that all you post is "Haas sucks, buy a Mikron" in any thread? Guessing that's his point?

Not going to argue that. Sure, they're slow, inaccurate, and rigid as a wet noodle, but they have their place. Not everything needs the utmost precision... it really depends on the work you do.

well, they do suck... but i do bring up specific examples of how they suck most times.

 

[Garwood]

I'm not bashing Haas, they serve a certain demographic and if you have reasonable expectations it will probably serve you fine.

But in that same sentiment I've never heard someone who had a haas that upgraded to a Japanese or German machine say they wish they didn't or the haas was a better machine.

If you make your own parts and you know what tolerances you need then that's one thing, but as a job shop with different customer demands coming through the door I'd rather have something overkill from the start so that way I'm not fighting things trying to hold a tolerance right from the beginning, just my opinion.


Who do you think has been talking? lol

When I look at a machine purchase I look at how much that machines going to make or how much value it adds to the shop, not how low I can get the number at the bottom of the quote b/c often times by spending more money you can make more money...

Well put.

As a shop owner, who bootstrapped up to some nicer machines, I'm always confused at the logic that the Haas lower cost of entry is even a thing.

Haas financing, sure. Local Haas support in your area, sure that could be a thing. But believing you are saving $20k or $50k through buying a Haas?

How much labor is on your shop floor? You guys know that $30/hr is a starting machinist wage in most geographic locations with populations that have most of their teeth right?

A new Haas that performs almost at premium builders performance levels from 25 years ago might be costing you a hell of a lot more than that money you thought you saved.

 

[empower]

Well put.

As a shop owner, who bootstrapped up to some nicer machines, I'm always confused at the logic that the Haas lower cost of entry is even a thing.

Haas financing, sure. Local Haas support in your area, sure that could be a thing. But believing you are saving $20k or $50k through buying a Haas?

How much labor is on your shop floor? You guys know that $30/hr is a starting machinist wage in most geographic locations with people that have most of their teeth right?

A new Haas that performs almost at premium builders performance levels from 25 years ago might be costing you a hell of a lot more than that money you thought you saved.

heeey, what you got against people without teeth? LOL!

i'll give haas a TON of credit for their financing program. i would argue that its the single biggest reason for their success.
i just recently tried to finance a 150k machine at a few banks, with 20% down and 800 credit score - was told to go pound sand...
the bigger MTB's could definitely learn that, as well as online pricing from Haas.

 

[mhajicek]

Well put.

As a shop owner, who bootstrapped up to some nicer machines, I'm always confused at the logic that the Haas lower cost of entry is even a thing.

Haas financing, sure. Local Haas support in your area, sure that could be a thing. But believing you are saving $20k or $50k through buying a Haas?

How much labor is on your shop floor? You guys know that $30/hr is a starting machinist wage in most geographic locations with populations that have most of their teeth right?

A new Haas that performs almost at premium builders performance levels from 25 years ago might be costing you a hell of a lot more than that money you thought you saved.

Haas wins for startup shops for a few reasons. Number one is that I can go on their website and browse all their offerings WITH PRICES, and option out a machine WITH PRICES as many times and as many different ways as I like before pulling the trigger, while I save up, investigate financing, and feel out my use cases. Floor layouts and machine models are right on the site for anyone to download and see how the machine will fit. I must have "built" 50 different machines on their website before buying. No cost to me, no cost to them. With any other MTB, you go have lunch with their salesman, who feels you out for how much you can pay. They'll have to check if this option is available on that machine, as if they're doing you a favor. Then you get a quote or two. If you want to look at other options, you need another conversation, and you need to wait for them to build you another quote. Most documentation is on request.

At least in Minneapolis, parts and service are stellar. I don't need them often, but when I do they're right on top of it. I've been running Haas for eight years now, and have a total of about six days of down time.

As mentioned, ease of use and ease of learning are phenomenal. A quick Google search will find you a help page and a video for anything you might want to do.

Then when it does come time that you can afford a higher end machine, if you don't want to keep the old Haas still making money in the corner, it's got resale value. Five year old machines going for 80% of new price. Ten year old for 50% or sometimes more.

Oh, and the labor, that's me. Sometimes the wife will swap parts if I'm nice.