New lathe (9”?)- need some help ID’ing it, setup questions and maybe finding some missing parts

[Beninct]

Found this on CL yesterday for $500 and bought it today. Nicely coated in oil so no rust but disassembled and possibly missing some parts….

Hoping this link to the media file on this site works so pics can be viewed- https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/media/3d60f45a-a580-4293-9c65-6226f7c25367-jpeg.349353/

Going to set out to get this bolted down, find a drive belt, wire a switch and make it turn so I can see what it needs.

• I found a date chart and think it was made in late 1938 or early 1939- S/N is 87613
• Anything major missing from my pics?
• Looking for advice on oil type (manual says SAE type 10) is recommended 80 years later
• not much need for threading now but curious what gears the group might recommend I install to make the compound travel at a nice speed
• Motor is 1/3 hp and it sounds like 1/2 or 3/4 would be better plus maybe a VFD since I am used to that- hoping there is a setup that several people have used so its tried and tested...
• belt recommendations? Source/size?

New to this site so thank you in advance for any help!

Ben (in CT)

 

[Dobermann]

Looks like a nice friendly old "Model C" bench lathe. I do not see any change gears in the pictures. The lack of a gear set makes it virtually impossible to do any threading. In the normal set of gears there would be a very large gear which in combination with either a 16 tooth or 32 tooth gear will make it so the carriage moves at a slow enough speed to do turning. Keep in mind that on that lather there is no separate system for moving the carriage as is the case for the Model B and Model A machines. Thus you're using the half-nuts for all cases where you want the carriage to move and they will wear. The more you use them, the more they wear. Most folks with that model lathe learn to move the carriage by hand for most turning operations.

I also don't see a drill chuck for the tailstock and the chuck in the pictures isn't very large so you'll want to shop for something in the 5" to 6" range for general work. For starters, you'll want a 4-jaw chuck because it can hold odd shapes AND can be manually centered to nearly "0" tolerance which often isn't the case for 3 jaw chucks.

A 1/3 HP motor is more than sufficient to run that lathe. Higher horsepower motors sound attractive but for the most part you can' transmit the power through the belt system. A 3 phase motor under VFD control is very nice for lathe use because it gives a wide range spindle speeds. However, in your case you'll need to buy a 3 phase motor and the VFD controller which often isn't very cheap.

The countershaft is driven from the motor via a V-belt. Sounds strange because the big pulley on the countershaft is flat but a V-Belt tracks just fine and will not slip.

For the flat belt system, you'll need to get the machine set up with the counteshaft assembly mounted so you can measure the length of the flat belt needed. There are lots of options as to the flat belt. Personally I recommend a commercial flat belt with a laced ends so that you don't have to disassemble the countershaft and headstock to get it around the pulleys. Opinions vary on this but I've been doing this for a lot of years and I conclude that the flat belt with "clipper" laces is the best solution.

That lathe is the older "total loss" oil system so the spindle oil is maybe a little less critical. I think you'll find good success with something like 5 W 20 engine oil. It's more important to use plenty of oil than to worry about what's the exact best thing. Avoid some of the heavier oils such as 30 or 40 weight straight viscosity.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Beninct]

Looks like a nice friendly old "Model C" bench lathe. I do not see any change gears in the pictures. The lack of a gear set makes it virtually impossible to do any threading. In the normal set of gears there would be a very large gear which in combination with either a 16 tooth or 32 tooth gear will make it so the carriage moves at a slow enough speed to do turning. Keep in mind that on that lather there is no separate system for moving the carriage as is the case for the Model B and Model A machines. Thus you're using the half-nuts for all cases where you want the carriage to move and they will wear. The more you use them, the more they wear. Most folks with that model lathe learn to move the carriage by hand for most turning operations.

I also don't see a drill chuck for the tailstock and the chuck in the pictures isn't very large so you'll want to shop for something in the 5" to 6" range for general work. For starters, you'll want a 4-jaw chuck because it can hold odd shapes AND can be manually centered to nearly "0" tolerance which often isn't the case for 3 jaw chucks.

A 1/3 HP motor is more than sufficient to run that lathe. Higher horsepower motors sound attractive but for the most part you can' transmit the power through the belt system. A 3 phase motor under VFD control is very nice for lathe use because it gives a wide range spindle speeds. However, in your case you'll need to buy a 3 phase motor and the VFD controller which often isn't very cheap.

The countershaft is driven from the motor via a V-belt. Sounds strange because the big pulley on the countershaft is flat but a V-Belt tracks just fine and will not slip.

For the flat belt system, you'll need to get the machine set up with the counteshaft assembly mounted so you can measure the length of the flat belt needed. There are lots of options as to the flat belt. Personally I recommend a commercial flat belt with a laced ends so that you don't have to disassemble the countershaft and headstock to get it around the pulleys. Opinions vary on this but I've been doing this for a lot of years and I conclude that the flat belt with "clipper" laces is the best solution.

That lathe is the older "total loss" oil system so the spindle oil is maybe a little less critical. I think you'll find good success with something like 5 W 20 engine oil. It's more important to use plenty of oil than to worry about what's the exact best thing. Avoid some of the heavier oils such as 30 or 40 weight straight viscosity.

Good luck with your project.

Thanks very much for all of this! Actually makes me feel good because I assumed much of this and I am not a great machinist of any sort. How about a source for a flat belt? Any idea what the thread is for the chuck so I can look around (1”/20 thread for example...)? Need to dig into setting it up with what I have, making the tension rod for the hinged motor mount etc so I can make some cuts before going too crazy.

 

[johnoder]

Here is the chart - gives a great idea of gears involved

Spindle nose thread likely 1 1/2 - 8

 

[65Bassman]

Here is an adjustable Buck. Can be centered to a couple tenths like a 4 jaw then locked. Fast and accurate.

 

[Beninct]

Here is the chart - gives a great idea of gears involved

Spindle nose thread likely 1 1/2 - 8

Thank- have to see what I have first. Waiting for a belt to come in the mail and will try to set it up next weekend. I found a manual online since discovering what model I have so need to print that and study it too. Hunting for a decent 3 jaw also- thanks for everything

 

[animal12]

It looked like there were some gears in the box next to the counter shaft assembly . Make a list of what tooth count you have & post that & we can see what you need from there .
animal

 

[Beninct]

It looked like there were some gears in the box next to the counter shaft assembly . Make a list of what tooth count you have & post that & we can see what you need from there .
animal

Finally dug into the pile over the weekend and only 4 of the gears mesh together so the other 4 are unrelated to this machine! I need the reversing gears (just 2 of the 4 on that armature) and found them on Ebay. Will update when they come in with some pictures.
Been using the lathe and its nice and steady but I think I need to shim the main bearings a little. Want to get a new chuck first though because the chuck that is on the lathe is only 3" or so and it runs considerably out of true lol.

 

[animal12]

Just keep in mind that just about any "NEW " chuck you buy will be considerably larger then the chuck you currently have . Some come with back-plates & some don't . So that means either way ou probably will have to cut the register in the back-plate . There's ton's of info here on that , if you get stumped ask . Your new back-plate will probably made from cast iron , you want to make sure you cover anything that you can before you start machining cast iron , again ask if your not sure on what to do . I have a 6" 3 jaw SANOU that I bought from either CME Tools or CDCO tools
here's the chuck from CME https://cme-tools.com/collections/c...elf-centering-lathe-chucks?variant=5778944323 I have had it now going on 7-8 years I think & it has been a very nice chuck for my use . . They sell it with or without the back plate , spend some time on the website & you'll find what your after .
Good luck
animal

 

[Beninct]

Finally dug into the pile over the weekend and only 4 of the gears mesh together so the other 4 are unrelated to this machine! I need the reversing gears (just 2 of the 4 on that armature) and found them on Ebay. Will update when they come in with some pictures.
Been using the lathe and its nice and steady but I think I need to shim the main bearings a little. Want to get a new chuck first though because the chuck that is on the lathe is only 3" or so and it runs considerably out of true lol.

It looked like there were some gears in the box next to the counter shaft assembly . Make a list of what tooth count you have & post that & we can see what you need from there .
animal

Take a look- I got the “new” reversing gear setup from EBay and it is literally mint and was $40. You can see the gears I have in the pictures and it looks like I could make the larger ones work to get the auto feed working but will need to make a bushing to mount them on the shaft on the gear bracket. Hope I am using the right words To describe the parts….

I have 25, 40, 80 and 84T gears.

821B65C2-8834-4C4D-9974-58E76D45CE25.jpeg

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[Beninct]

Just keep in mind that just about any "NEW " chuck you buy will be considerably larger then the chuck you currently have . Some come with back-plates & some don't . So that means either way ou probably will have to cut the register in the back-plate . There's ton's of info here on that , if you get stumped ask . Your new back-plate will probably made from cast iron , you want to make sure you cover anything that you can before you start machining cast iron , again ask if your not sure on what to do . I have a 6" 3 jaw SANOU that I bought from either CME Tools or CDCO tools
here's the chuck from CME https://cme-tools.com/collections/c...elf-centering-lathe-chucks?variant=5778944323 I have had it now going on 7-8 years I think & it has been a very nice chuck for my use . . They sell it with or without the back plate , spend some time on the website & you'll find what your after .
Good luck
animal

I think I will buy one of these based on your say so. Which back plate did you get? I think the thread is 1 1/2 - 8 and would like it to thread right on if that is an option? Also read about some “Shars” chucks on EBay. Thank you

 

[animal12]

So when I got my chuck I amazed at just how large it was compared to the chuck I was replacing . I wrote up how I got the chuck set up for the lathe here , It may come up with a search . But here's a bit of info . I decided I wanted to cut down the amount that the chuck hung out on the spindle so I measured up the old backplate & figured out how much I could remove from the back of the spindle . I machined up some spacers I don't remember how thick , but bear with me & hopefully you'll be able to figure out what I'm trying to explain . I put one of the machined spacers on the spindle , & then I installed the backplate on the spindle backwards with the spacer between the backplate & the mating part on the spindle with what I call the spigot on the backplate . I faced off some material on the spigot till I got to the dimension I was after . Then I gut a new register in the back of the backplate in the threads . Then I turned the backplate around removed the spacer & installed the backplate the right way & proceeded to face off some more material to make the backplate thinner . After I got that where I wanted it I installed the chuck on the backplate & spent some time getting the chuck trued up on the backplate . I ended up facing off the step on the mating side of the backplate but I knew that was going to happen so I cut a new step after I got the facing done . The chuck ran much truer after this work which was the result I was after . Hope this helps .
animal

 

[animal12]

I didn't find my post , but you might give this one a read

SB 10K Machined back plate for 4-jaw 6" chuck - How I did it with some GLOAT!

Lathe: South Bend 10K with VFD and 12 speed gearing. I just finished turning a new back plate for my “new old stock!” 4-jaw 6” Skinner chuck. I used a back plate blank #1919 from “Little Machine Shop”. Blank was pre-threaded. Threads “look” sort of rough but cleaned and oiled spun onto...

www.practicalmachinist.com

animal