New Member Request for Information - Hendey 16in Cone Head Lathe

[rustyjazz1938]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, but amazed at the breadth of knowledge present, and my hope is to potentially tap into that knowledge. A bit of my background, I'm an engineer in the automotive industry, and my primary hobby is vintage automobiles, however to go with vintage automobiles, there is nothing better than vintage machinery, especially when it comes time to make parts that are made of unobtainium. My current project is king pin and bushing work on a 1914 Studebaker.

On to the machinery side of the discussion. Early in 2020, before the world stopped turning for a bit, I became the proud new owner of a Hendey Cone Head lathe (I believe to be 16in swing). The lathe has had a long hard life as evidenced by the pictures, but frankly its next stop if I did not save it would be the scrapper's torch, and it turns out that even as beat up as it is, the machine still runs great and will suit my needs. An example of its hard life is the conversion to electric drive, which I think was performed in the 1930s based on the original motor (not in use) and speed conversion gear box. To make the multi v-belt drive system work, the brace at the headstock end that covered the flat belt pulleys was butchered (best description of the cuts) off of the machine. That being said, I've successfully put the lathe to use making parts for my cars already, however I am now in need of some of its specifications for the next project. I am hopeful that perhaps Hendeyman can find its history and specs in his archives, or another knowledgeable member can answer my question.

The ways of the machine have been scraped at some point in its life, however I believe I was able to discern the serial number as 12360 (maybe 12330, the number stamp is almost completely gone). If it helps narrow it down, the chip tray it is mounted on has an equipment dealer plate from The Strong, Carlisle & Hammond Co. of Detroit and Cleveland.

The question I have, is that for the upcoming job, I will need to be turning between centers, and I do not have a spindle center for my lathe. Can anyone tell me what taper the spindle accepts so I can begin the search for what I need?

Thanks for any help in advance, for reading my lengthy post,

Rusty Berg

 

[johnoder]

Real early 1900s since it has no "tie bar" over spindle

Chuck up a piece in the chuck and turn a 60 degree included point and you will have your center. Rest a dog's "tail" on a chuck jaw. A heavy duty version of this has a shoudler to keep it from being pushed back in the chuck jaws

Lots of info here - starts at Post #8. I am fairly sure the first two links in Post #8 are no longer working

new hendy lathe

have fun

 

[M.B. Naegle]

My 1909 16" gear head Hendey is a Morse 4 1/2 spindle taper. It's not a common taper unfortunately so short-term I'd do as johnoder suggests. Long term, keep an eye on eBay. I think it would have shipped with an adapter sleeve to let you use a Morse 3 center in the spindle.

 

[johnoder]

Hendey tapers - thanks to an old hendeyman post



There is no way I know of to see just how early or late this applies - I do know it mentions 12 speed gear head which is way later than this thread's topic lathe

A quick eye ball look at end of spindle nose visible in chuck bore may suggest what you have. If close to 1 1/2" ID you likely have the 4 1/2 Hendey Morse

 

[rustyjazz1938]

Real early 1900s since it has no "tie bar" over spindle

Chuck up a piece in the chuck and turn a 60 degree included point and you will have your center. Rest a dog's "tail" on a chuck jaw. A heavy duty version of this has a shoudler to keep it from being pushed back in the chuck jaws

Lots of info here - starts at Post #8. I am fairly sure the first two links in Post #8 are no longer working

new hendy lathe

have fun

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not that early a model I think, as the tie bar was cut off when it was converted to electric motor power. The stumps of where the bar was are still present on the headstock. A v-belt conversion was used, so there would be no way to split the belt with the tie bar in place. I hadn't thought of turning a center in the chuck, I'm more of an auto mechanic than machinist, thanks for the great idea!

As to the spindle taper, thanks M.B. Naegle. That makes sense as I tried measuring it once and wasn't getting anything that matched Machinery's Handbook. The hunt begins!

 

[johnoder]

Seems like a waste of a tie bar.

Spindle comes out to right and that is the only way you are going to get an uncut belt on or off - with or without tie bar

No bearing caps to take off

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not that early a model I think, as the tie bar was cut off when it was converted to electric motor power. The stumps of where the bar was are still present on the headstock. A v-belt conversion was used, so there would be no way to split the belt with the tie bar in place. I hadn't thought of turning a center in the chuck, I'm more of an auto mechanic than machinist, thanks for the great idea!

As to the spindle taper, thanks M.B. Naegle. That makes sense as I tried measuring it once and wasn't getting anything that matched Machinery's Handbook. The hunt begins!

 

[hendeyman]

rustyjazz1938:

Normally, any Hendey Cone Head lathe with a Compound Gear Box and no Tie Bar would have been built during 1904 to 1905. The fact that
the Tie Bar has been removed makes dating in a bit more difficult, but design features would indicate that it was built between 1907
and 1914. You are correct, it is at least a 16 inch, short bed model. All of this was confirmed by the Serial Number and the Dealer's
Plate. It seems that the original owner of your lathe hadn't gone into building cars yet, just supplying parts for Henry Ford.

Hendey lathe No.12360, a 16 x 6 Cone Head model, was scheduled for completion during the last week of February 1911. It was shipped with an Oil Pan and a Plain Tool Rest (normally, a Plain and a Compound Tool Rest was shipped with the lathe as standard equipment). The
original owner was the Dodge Brothers, Detroit, Michigan. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory
for this lathe. All of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required. As posted by M.B. Naegle, the Spindle Nose Taper in a 4-1/2 Morse Taper and the Tailstock Spindle taper is a No.3 Morse Taper. With the Tailstock flush with the end
of the Bed, it will take 28-3/4 inches between centers.

Hendeyman

 

[moonlight machine]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, but amazed at the breadth of knowledge present, and my hope is to potentially tap into that knowledge. A bit of my background, I'm an engineer in the automotive industry, and my primary hobby is vintage automobiles, however to go with vintage automobiles, there is nothing better than vintage machinery, especially when it comes time to make parts that are made of unobtainium. My current project is king pin and bushing work on a 1914 Studebaker.

Rusty Berg

On your Kingpin Job have you looked into using Thompson rod for the kingpins? It's great stuff for kingpins, case hardened and ground. It's about 60R to about .060 deep and available from McMaster Carr. I used some to make kingpins for a Graham Paige a while back. Makes a beautiful part, much better than came from the factory.
McMaster has lots of bushings and bushing material as well. McMaster Carr is my go to place when I am doing this sort of work.

 

[wdTom]

McMaster also has pins similar to Thompson rod that you can get in shorter lengths, case hardened and ground too.

 

[rustyjazz1938]

rustyjazz1938:

Normally, any Hendey Cone Head lathe with a Compound Gear Box and no Tie Bar would have been built during 1904 to 1905. The fact that
the Tie Bar has been removed makes dating in a bit more difficult, but design features would indicate that it was built between 1907
and 1914. You are correct, it is at least a 16 inch, short bed model. All of this was confirmed by the Serial Number and the Dealer's
Plate. It seems that the original owner of your lathe hadn't gone into building cars yet, just supplying parts for Henry Ford.

Hendey lathe No.12360, a 16 x 6 Cone Head model, was scheduled for completion during the last week of February 1911. It was shipped with an Oil Pan and a Plain Tool Rest (normally, a Plain and a Compound Tool Rest was shipped with the lathe as standard equipment). The
original owner was the Dodge Brothers, Detroit, Michigan. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory
for this lathe. All of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required. As posted by M.B. Naegle, the Spindle Nose Taper in a 4-1/2 Morse Taper and the Tailstock Spindle taper is a No.3 Morse Taper. With the Tailstock flush with the end
of the Bed, it will take 28-3/4 inches between centers.

Hendeyman

Everyone,

I cannot thank you all enough for the wealth of information that has been shared. Hendeyman, the fact that this lathe was owned by the Dodge Brothers is one of the coolest pieces of information I could have ever received. The lathe has been used, abused, and modified since it was originally made, for one it has a compound tool rest on it now, but it can still be put to use doing automotive work, as intended.

Based on the timeline, the Dodge Brothers were just moving out of Greektown in Detroit, to the new Dodge Main Plant (long since demolished and replaced by GM's Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly) in Hamtramck, Michigan. Conceivably, this might have been one of the new machines for the plant. Hendeyman, I might try to reach out to you directly, if I may, to see about getting some copies of the information you have to keep with the lathe, to ensure its history is maintained.

As to the king pin project, I was able to jig up a setup to allow me to turn between centers based on the advice from the forum members. As to next steps, I am still working through them. The original pins are worn, but not terribly, so they might be salvageable with a little bit of work. In parallel I am working on a drawing, and researching material. Based on some research, I was thinking of turning 8640 Steel, case hardening, and grinding to final size. I will definitely be looking at the Thompson rod material. As to the bushings, I already have some 954 Aluminum Bronze on the way (figured I only needed to do bushing work).

I appreciate all the interest, and am willing to share more as things progress, I know this probably isn't the right forum for automotive discussions, but I'll keep spinning a yarn if folks are willing to listen.

Thanks again,

Rusty Berg

 

[M.B. Naegle]

The Tie-bar head-stock was a Hendey trade-mark for accuracy until gear-head lathes took over. It's a shame it's gone. If it were me, I'd keep an eye out for any parts lathes out there and see if you can get the head-stock. I seem to remember someone on here had a 16" cone head that was missing the whole carriage assembly and they desided to part it out. Not sure what ever happened to it. Swapping head-stocks will take some inspection and scraping to get it mated to the bed correctly, but it'll be worth it IMO.

On edit: found the thread: Hendey Conehead Part Out